Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · August 24th, 2016, 09:41 PM

Quote:

The camera’s 30.4 megapixel 35mm Full Frame Canon CMOS sensor offers stunning image quality while the DIGIC 6+ Image Processor delivers 4K 30P video and up to and seven frames per second (fps) continuous shooting. To make video shooting even easier, the camera also features Canon’s propriety Dual Pixel CMOS AF, even when shooting 4K to help ensure sharp focus and subject tracking.

Read the full press release here: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses at DV Info Net

Pre-order from B&H here: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV (Body Only) at B&H Photo Video

Jon Fairhurst · August 25th, 2016, 12:11 AM

I was right about windowed 4K. (And DPAF, but that was a no-brainer.) Windowed 4K is the cleanest way to get alias-free video from a DSLR. Unlike the 5D3, no digital filtering is needed and the native anti-aliasing filter does its intended job. I wonder how full frame HD will look and if it will be any crisper than 5D3 video.

The big missing item for me is HDR. There's no mention of it in the press release. Low compression Motion JPEG is nice, especially if it's 4:2:2 as expected, but these days I'm looking for bit depth above most all else.

No doubt, this is a killer stills camera and it should be able to capture very crisp, clean video. Wi-Fi and GPS should really simplify publish-now workflows. (But can we get shallow DOF, high res Pokemon Go shots?)

Can't wait to see some low-light images and learn about more of the details.

Noa Put · August 25th, 2016, 12:13 AM

I received a mail from a Dutch store with the price: 4129 euro for the body while the mark 3 is currently 2900 euro.

Wil Vermeesch · August 25th, 2016, 03:51 AM

Rediculous because in the USA they offer at B&H $3499,-- . Is Europe putting € 600 more on this camera ;>((

Chris Hurd · August 25th, 2016, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

The big missing item for me is HDR. There's no mention of it in the press release.

According to the notes I took during a recent press briefing, HDR is indeed available in video mode at HD 1080p30. But not in 4K it seems.

Rob Cantwell · August 25th, 2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

4129 euro for the body while the mark 3 is currently 2900 euro.

I got an email from Canon Europe they want €4,899.99 according to their web site, i'll be keeping the 5D Mk III for a while yet.

Noa Put · August 25th, 2016, 10:51 AM

If you wait long enough I'm sure the price will go down significantly.

Jon Fairhurst · August 25th, 2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

According to the notes I took during a recent press briefing, HDR is indeed available in video mode at HD 1080p30. But not in 4K it seems.

Excellent. Hopefully, HD (with HDR) will be crisp.

I'm watching the B&H panel live. It seems that HDR is a dual-exposure solution that blends 60 fps to create a 30 fps result. So this is more of a "photo HDR" style where you put a wider range into an 8-bit output. This is as compared to "video HDR" that uses more bits and uses a transfer function such as PQ (SMPTE ST2084) or HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma).

On HD resolution, 30.4 MP means 6753 x 4502 or so photosites. Crop to 16x9 and it's 6753 x 3799. In one dimension, that's roughly 3.5 photosites per pixel. That's R-G-B-G/2 ;). Like the 5D3, it would be too much data to read out for processing in the DIGIC chip. There would need to be some upstream hardware to pre-filter and decimate the content before output. Hopefully, the hardware filters are complex enough to keep things sharp.

Seth Bloombaum · August 25th, 2016, 12:41 PM

I feel Canon has done well by full-frame video shooters in this release:

* DPAF - excellent AF, a no-brainer as Jon pointed out above. Unexpected but very welcome is the first touch screen on a 5D. This really unleashes AF as a professional-level tool.

Though I started many decades ago with MF broadcast cameras, I really can't say enough about Canon's latest gen DPAF/touchscreen as a pro-level tool. After decades of AF that was useless for pros, it's finally come of age.

* 4k, of course. If a little behind at 30p max, we'd expect it to be a good implementation.

* New versions of the already excellent 16-35 f/2.8 and 24-105 f/4. Though, it will be hard for some shooters to give up the EF-S (crop only) 17-55 f/2.8.

* Low light performance isn't highlighted in the press release, but the web site lists improvements in sensor and image processing S/N.

* I do wonder if the cam will continue to record in 4k if you plug in a monitor to the HDMI port, which is FullHD only.

As a 70D shooter considering the 80D, full-frame on the 5D3 with all the latest AF goodness and more will make it hard to settle for the 80D.

Noa Put · August 25th, 2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

4k, of course. If a little behind at 30p max, we'd expect it to be a good implementation.

I have read the 4K mode is with a 1.74x crop, not sure if that is a good implementation?

Barry Goyette · August 25th, 2016, 02:21 PM

I've seen both 1.64 (DPreview) and 1.74 (newsshooter). Realistically this is close to super35, and for a direct read out 4k, it's probably much better than a binned or line skipped 4k if they'd used the entire sensor. Canon's sample video seems to make a big deal out of an early shot that would probably moire like crazy if it had been line-skipped.

Jon Fairhurst · August 25th, 2016, 03:19 PM

I went through the math on the crop factor, assuming an exact 30.4 MP, 3:2, 36x24mm sensor. The actual sensor might vary.

If you just look at the width of the 4096x2160 4K image, it's 1/1.65 of the width of the full-frame sensor. However, if you look at the image circle radius, it's 1/1.75 the radius of the full frame circle. It's a bit weird as the photo circle is around a full frame 3:2 rectangle and the video crop is 17:9. If you look at the UHD, 16x9, 3840x2160 crop, it's 1/1.84 of the image circle.

Whatever. It's within a 1.6x crop, so the corners won't get cropped from an ASP/C lens.

And I agree with Barry that avoiding line skipping is the key to delivering photo-like images.

I watched part of the B&H live panel on the launch. The photographers gushed about being able to shoot 4Kp30, select the best frame, and save that frame to the card. Examples included an infant delivering that perfect micro expression and the rice/petals falling just right in front of a bride's face. Lightning and meteors are other great examples. It's like a 30 fps motor drive.

They also noted that 8.8 MP for the crop is a nice balance point. It's enough resolution to make a nice print, and it's not too large to upload via Wi-Fi to social media sites.

One can capture 30MP RAW or 60MP Dual Pixel RAW. With Dual Pixel, there are three options: 1) micro adjust the focal point, 2) shift the bokeh (like a tilt-shift), or 3) do ghost/flare reduction. One person mentioned that this is perfect for macro work so you can pinpoint the glint off an eye or a diamond ring. Of course, the 4K extraction is another solution. Just shoot macro handheld, drift through the focal point, and select the right frame.

There are more focus points and they have more vertical spread, so you can (finally) focus at the rule of 3rds. There is an additional control that you can assign to selection of focus points. And all the focus points will AF at f/8, which is nice for long lenses with extenders.

The viewfinder has a lot more information too, so you can see more settings without looking at the displays. Given that I wear reading glasses (but not with a diopter on the viewfinder), this is great news for me.

It includes photo flicker reduction (in mirror mode) that detects the cycle of lights and shifts the shutter timing slightly to snap at the brightest point. The 7D2 has this, but the 5D4 has a smarter version that works even if only a portion of the view is affected. I've got a whole slew of badly colored and badly exposed stills that I shot under fluorescent lights. Probably only one in five is ideal. Removing that error is a big win in institutional (school, church, work...) settings.

One DIGIC 6 chip is dedicated to lens compensation. There were some artifacts that could only be cleaned up in Canon's Digital Photo Professional that are now part of the camera's native JPEG workflow. Stand, Shoot, Deliver (I'm yours.)

Lots of good stuff for the shooter who does both stills and video and wants a single body (with a single invoice.)

Nick Fotis · August 25th, 2016, 03:38 PM

I like the dual pixel AF and touch screen combination.
Judging from a demo, it gives powerful possibilities:

The windowed 4k is a bit limited (you cannot do much wide angle), and I guess that the HDMI is no 4k capable.
The EU price is definitely unreasonable, compared to the USA one (but let's not forget it includes VAT, while USA prices do not include sales tax).

I feel that a 9 Mpixels a7S killer should be next...

Waiting for a 6D mk2 with dual pixel AF and touch screen myself...

N. F.

Jon Fairhurst · August 25th, 2016, 04:01 PM

Apparently, there are ten speed options for rack focus. In addition, it's now smart enough to ignore objects moving through the frame (such as a car driving between camera and subject) and the sensitivity to unwanted objects is adjustable.

Dan Brockett · August 26th, 2016, 11:10 AM

I have watched all of the videos, read all of the reviews. The 5D MKIV is a killer stills camera that can be used to occasionally shoot video, usually by photographers or other light users. Canon really hasn't deviated from the purpose of the camera since the 5D MKII. It seems as if everyone was expecting Canon to answer our wildest dreams with video features, when they have obviously ceded the hybrid mirrorless market to Panasonic, Sony and Fuji. Canon will tell you that if you are a videographer/cinematographer to buy a C300 MKII. Why would they give you a $3,500.00 DSLR that has good video features?

If you want a hybrid stills video camera, ditch Canon and buy a Sony, Panasonic or Fuji. There, all done.

August 25th, 2016, 12:11 AM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I was right about windowed 4K. (And DPAF, but that was a no-brainer.) Windowed 4K is the cleanest way to get alias-free video from a DSLR. Unlike the 5D3, no digital filtering is needed and the native anti-aliasing filter does its intended job. I wonder how full frame HD will look and if it will be any crisper than 5D3 video. The big missing item for me is HDR. There's no mention of it in the press release. Low compression Motion JPEG is nice, especially if it's 4:2:2 as expected, but these days I'm looking for bit depth above most all else. No doubt, this is a killer stills camera and it should be able to capture very crisp, clean video. Wi-Fi and GPS should really simplify publish-now workflows. (But can we get shallow DOF, high res Pokemon Go shots?) Can't wait to see some low-light images and learn about more of the details. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 25th, 2016, 12:13 AM	#3
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I received a mail from a Dutch store with the price: 4129 euro for the body while the mark 3 is currently 2900 euro.

August 25th, 2016, 03:51 AM	#4
Wil Vermeesch Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Eindhoven The Netherlands Posts: 52	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses Rediculous because in the USA they offer at B&H $3499,-- . Is Europe putting € 600 more on this camera ;>((

August 25th, 2016, 10:51 AM	#7
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses If you wait long enough I'm sure the price will go down significantly.

August 25th, 2016, 12:41 PM	#9
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I feel Canon has done well by full-frame video shooters in this release: * DPAF - excellent AF, a no-brainer as Jon pointed out above. Unexpected but very welcome is the first touch screen on a 5D. This really unleashes AF as a professional-level tool. Though I started many decades ago with MF broadcast cameras, I really can't say enough about Canon's latest gen DPAF/touchscreen as a pro-level tool. After decades of AF that was useless for pros, it's finally come of age. * 4k, of course. If a little behind at 30p max, we'd expect it to be a good implementation. * New versions of the already excellent 16-35 f/2.8 and 24-105 f/4. Though, it will be hard for some shooters to give up the EF-S (crop only) 17-55 f/2.8. * Low light performance isn't highlighted in the press release, but the web site lists improvements in sensor and image processing S/N. * I do wonder if the cam will continue to record in 4k if you plug in a monitor to the HDMI port, which is FullHD only. As a 70D shooter considering the 80D, full-frame on the 5D3 with all the latest AF goodness and more will make it hard to settle for the 80D. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

August 25th, 2016, 02:21 PM	#11
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I've seen both 1.64 (DPreview) and 1.74 (newsshooter). Realistically this is close to super35, and for a direct read out 4k, it's probably much better than a binned or line skipped 4k if they'd used the entire sensor. Canon's sample video seems to make a big deal out of an early shot that would probably moire like crazy if it had been line-skipped. __________________ Barry http://www.barrygoyette.com

August 25th, 2016, 03:19 PM	#12
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I went through the math on the crop factor, assuming an exact 30.4 MP, 3:2, 36x24mm sensor. The actual sensor might vary. If you just look at the width of the 4096x2160 4K image, it's 1/1.65 of the width of the full-frame sensor. However, if you look at the image circle radius, it's 1/1.75 the radius of the full frame circle. It's a bit weird as the photo circle is around a full frame 3:2 rectangle and the video crop is 17:9. If you look at the UHD, 16x9, 3840x2160 crop, it's 1/1.84 of the image circle. Whatever. It's within a 1.6x crop, so the corners won't get cropped from an ASP/C lens. And I agree with Barry that avoiding line skipping is the key to delivering photo-like images. I watched part of the B&H live panel on the launch. The photographers gushed about being able to shoot 4Kp30, select the best frame, and save that frame to the card. Examples included an infant delivering that perfect micro expression and the rice/petals falling just right in front of a bride's face. Lightning and meteors are other great examples. It's like a 30 fps motor drive. They also noted that 8.8 MP for the crop is a nice balance point. It's enough resolution to make a nice print, and it's not too large to upload via Wi-Fi to social media sites. One can capture 30MP RAW or 60MP Dual Pixel RAW. With Dual Pixel, there are three options: 1) micro adjust the focal point, 2) shift the bokeh (like a tilt-shift), or 3) do ghost/flare reduction. One person mentioned that this is perfect for macro work so you can pinpoint the glint off an eye or a diamond ring. Of course, the 4K extraction is another solution. Just shoot macro handheld, drift through the focal point, and select the right frame. There are more focus points and they have more vertical spread, so you can (finally) focus at the rule of 3rds. There is an additional control that you can assign to selection of focus points. And all the focus points will AF at f/8, which is nice for long lenses with extenders. The viewfinder has a lot more information too, so you can see more settings without looking at the displays. Given that I wear reading glasses (but not with a diopter on the viewfinder), this is great news for me. It includes photo flicker reduction (in mirror mode) that detects the cycle of lights and shifts the shutter timing slightly to snap at the brightest point. The 7D2 has this, but the 5D4 has a smarter version that works even if only a portion of the view is affected. I've got a whole slew of badly colored and badly exposed stills that I shot under fluorescent lights. Probably only one in five is ideal. Removing that error is a big win in institutional (school, church, work...) settings. One DIGIC 6 chip is dedicated to lens compensation. There were some artifacts that could only be cleaned up in Canon's Digital Photo Professional that are now part of the camera's native JPEG workflow. Stand, Shoot, Deliver (I'm yours.) Lots of good stuff for the shooter who does both stills and video and wants a single body (with a single invoice.) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 25th, 2016, 03:38 PM	#13
Nick Fotis Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 85	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I like the dual pixel AF and touch screen combination. Judging from a demo, it gives powerful possibilities: YouTube (Short URL) The windowed 4k is a bit limited (you cannot do much wide angle), and I guess that the HDMI is no 4k capable. The EU price is definitely unreasonable, compared to the USA one (but let's not forget it includes VAT, while USA prices do not include sales tax). I feel that a 9 Mpixels a7S killer should be next... Waiting for a 6D mk2 with dual pixel AF and touch screen myself... N. F.

August 25th, 2016, 04:01 PM	#14
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses Apparently, there are ten speed options for rack focus. In addition, it's now smart enough to ignore objects moving through the frame (such as a car driving between camera and subject) and the sensitivity to unwanted objects is adjustable. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 26th, 2016, 11:10 AM	#15
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Re: Canon USA reveals EOS 5D Mk. IV with 4K, new L-Series Lenses I have watched all of the videos, read all of the reviews. The 5D MKIV is a killer stills camera that can be used to occasionally shoot video, usually by photographers or other light users. Canon really hasn't deviated from the purpose of the camera since the 5D MKII. It seems as if everyone was expecting Canon to answer our wildest dreams with video features, when they have obviously ceded the hybrid mirrorless market to Panasonic, Sony and Fuji. Canon will tell you that if you are a videographer/cinematographer to buy a C300 MKII. Why would they give you a $3,500.00 DSLR that has good video features? If you want a hybrid stills video camera, ditch Canon and buy a Sony, Panasonic or Fuji. There, all done.