New Sony PXW-FS5

[Monday Isa]

Press Release:
http://blog.sony.com/press/sony-expa...super35-model/

PXW-FS5 (PXWFS5) : Specifications : United Kingdom : Sony Professional

Looks fantastic. Had this camera been announced along side the FS7 last year I would have went this route.

4K Xavc-L 100mbs 8bit
HD 10bit 422 50mbs
240fps HD burst mode, and 960/720p
AVCHD 2.0
Electronic ND - filter
SD media recording

[Ryan Douthit]

I will admit, I'm impressed at how much they threw into this camera. When we have the budget for another body, we'll certainly considering this one. I love the size and internal recording options.

Of course, the FS700+Odyssey can still out-shoot it for now with continuous 240fps HD and 4k at 120fps, but with a serious weight and handling penalty (a keen point since I just spent the last two days trudging through grasslands, mud bogs and fields with a fully-rigged FS700 setup, much to my shoulder's dismay.)

It will be interesting to see if Convergent Designs will be able to coax the same level of performance once Sony adds the (paid) 4k Raw upgrade to the FS5.

More info:

Sony

B&H has it up on their site, $6,099 with the power zoom lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html
Might be time for me to retire the trusty NX5U.

[Monday Isa]

That's a very nice price!

Body only is at $5599
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Friends,

The Sony FS5 is an exciting camera.

Our Odyssey7Q+ is fully capable of supporting every signal that the new Sony FS5 is currently capable of outputting.

Also, when Sony adds Raw to this camera, we are fully capable of supporting the new capabilities, in all frame rates and modes.

Here is Sony's statement:

"In the future, there will even be the option to record RAW externally (details to be announced.)"

When this option becomes available, we will fully support it.


Respectfully,

[Glen Vandermolen]

OK, that price has sold it for me.
Time to sell my PMW300.

[Larry Secrest]

For people mainly interested in narrative, like me, the Mini Ursa shooting ProRes is still a better option. That codec is amazing for color grading and I doubt the 4K Xavc-L 100mbs 8bit is as good.

Granted, form factor is amazing
ND filters, great, although again, the setting for narrative is different
Of course support from Sony will be better than from BMC.

I was hoping to see something similar to the Ursa Mini with the amazing after sale support and quality control of a giant like sony. But no, they threw in a crappy codec.

[Jack Zhang]

Really not sold that it's not 100% future proofed for budget wise people. You can use the "console video gamer" argument "30fps looks fine to me." But 4K without 60p just doesn't equate in my books. The FS5 will instantly be rejected by Discovery/BBC for feature production for not meeting 60fps in 4K. You can possibly redeem it with RAW, but then they'll probably make that option priced $2000+

The future is NOT 30fps people. Let's not make it that way. Even YouTube said they will support 4K 60p via VP9 very soon.

Also, this should not be an XDCAM camera cause it has no legacy XDCAM support.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Really not sold that it's not 100% future proofed for budget wise people. You can use the "console video gamer" argument "30fps looks fine to me." But 4K without 60p just doesn't equate in my books. The FS5 will instantly be rejected by Discovery/BBC for feature production for not meeting 60fps in 4K. You can possibly redeem it with RAW, but then they'll probably make that option priced $2000+

The future is NOT 30fps people. Let's not make it that way. Even YouTube said they will support 4K 60p via VP9 very soon.

I agree. They would have been better off using XQD cards and making the same spec marketing choices they made between the FDR-AX1 and the PXW-Z100 but use the FS7 as the base. Limit the FS5 to LongGOP, no RAW etc would have been a much better product and one I would have changed to from my FDR-AX1 . However looking at the spec the core technology may in fact come from the PXW-X70 ( other than 100Mbps for 30P QFHD they look the same ) so may have technology limits. Right now the DVX200 looks to be a better choice.

Ron Evans

[Josh Bass]

i dont understand why folks are so gung ho over 60p, except for slo mo. 60p is the progressive equivalent of 60i, right? i.e the soap opera/news/reality look we've all been trying to get away from for 15 years. what am i missing?

[Ron Evans]

Yes you are correct 60P is the temporal equivalent of 60i so is the equivalent in this modern world. For motion etc it or even faster frame rate would be the choice. That is exactly what I want. I shoot events and want it to look just as if the viewer was there in the live event, no effects or artistic grading. I want that smooth through the window look, no judder, no shallow depth of focus so I guess that is exactly opposite from what you want !!! So I want 60P to view at 60P not for a slow motion effect. As you wonder about 60P I wonder at why people like slow frame rates especially 24P that just doesn't fit into a digital world with refresh rates on screens that are just not in line with a multiple of 24 and need a pulldown cadence to be viewed !!!

Ron Evans

[Nate Haustein]

To each his own, but lucky for me I'm into the 24p look, so no 60p UHD really isn't that big of a deal. I think I've used 60p maybe once on my C100 in the last year.

With an external recorder we can get 4:2:2 and basically any bitrate we would want, so only thing "missing" is 10-bit and HFR. For the price, size and simplicity, I can wait another year for those.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Really not sold that it's not 100% future proofed for budget wise people. You can use the "console video gamer" argument "30fps looks fine to me." But 4K without 60p just doesn't equate in my books. The FS5 will instantly be rejected by Discovery/BBC for feature production for not meeting 60fps in 4K. You can possibly redeem it with RAW, but then they'll probably make that option priced $2000+

The future is NOT 30fps people. Let's not make it that way.

I have to confess that while early impressions about the FS5 were good, finding out things like no 4K 60p, and no "true 4K" anyway (QFHD only) struck me as negatives.

But I wonder...... I'm coming round to thinking that Sony's thinking is now that with so many models, it makes sense to accept that there isn't going to be the single "one size fits all" model - so why even try to cater for such?

So assume they took the view of optimising design for the budget cinema market, and decided that other models were more optimal for the event etc market - the market (like Jack) who see 60p as important. Accept that - and after learning the FS5 will be upgradeable to 4096x2160 cinema 4K and even RAW output - and doesn't the FS5 start to look a little like the "AF200" that some were hoping for?

As far as framerate goes, then personally I'd like to see the back of 24fps. As screens get bigger, I increasingly find the judder disturbing, and it really only works at all by adhering to strict rules about speed of camera movement etc. Maybe not too big a hardship for a feature film, but forget 24fps for live sport etc. It's a hangover from film cost days and the 1920s - the minimum that could be got away with for cost reasons without too big a quality hit for optical sound tracks. But people have got used to it.

That said, it's likely to remain industry standard even in the likes of Hollywood for a while, I'm afraid, so if you're currently buying a camera for low budget cinema work, I suspect the lack of 60p won't be too big a hardship. And by the time 4K 60p (or certainly QFHD 60p) starts to become more in demand, expect a whole new raft of cameras to be coming out.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Nate Haustein

With an external recorder we can get 4:2:2 and basically any bitrate we would want, so only thing "missing" is 10-bit and HFR. For the price, size and simplicity, I can wait another year for those.

And if you're in the market where such as 10 bit may be significant, then with the upgrade an external recorder will give you far more with RAW.

And if you're talking about a 3840x2160 Bayer chip, you won't get any more than about 1920x1080 chroma resolution from it anyway after deBayering. It's not physically possible. So in this case QFHD 4:2:0 will be able to capture all the colour information that's available. All 4:2:2 recording will do here is waste bandwidth.