Sony FDR-AX100

Dave Blackhurst · January 7th, 2014, 03:27 PM

@ Bruce -

The RX100Mk1 was tricky to get good video out of (you have to work at it!), the Mk2 has proven better in that respect - the switch to "R" or BSI or whatever you want to call it seems to have refined the video aspects.

Plus Sony engineers have had time to tweak things - in "auto" the 100M2 is great to shoot with, the RX10 is as well, but of course If you want the most out of the camera, you still have all the possible settings one could ask for to fine tune! Auto settings work, but it's nice to have all the tweaks, even if it is a long process to learn them all!

I never quite got to where I felt "ready" to use the Mk1 for anything serious video wise although I used it quite a bit because it was the camera I had with me, the Mk2 was shooting video out of the box and getting results I was quite happy with - the Mk1 was doing excellent stills for me, so I still think it is a great camera, and Sony has continued to push the design forward. Finally got to shoot a little more with the RX10, and while I'm still getting used to the camera, at least SOME is pretty eye popping! When the camera adjustments become more natural, I know it will continue to produce good results. The 100M2 will still be hiding in the other end of the camera bag too!

Michael Warren · January 7th, 2014, 08:12 PM

Unlike the sample video for the Z100, I'm very impressed with the AX100 4K sample video scaled to HD. That's the sharpest HD I've ever seen.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · January 7th, 2014, 09:15 PM

Yes. And the difference when the YouTube 4K (UHD) file was played back on my iMac's 2560x1440 screen vs the 1080p file played back full screen on the same screen was very noticeable. For all intent and purpose, I think most people who view 4K video from the AX100 on the newer 4K HDTVs will definitely see it as an improvement over 1080p despite the frame rates being only 30p/25p and compressed at relatively low bit rates.

By the time 4K has established a firm foothold in the general media consumption, maybe late 2014 or later, I doubt if Canon or Panasonic will be able to compete especially in the consumer video market.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · January 7th, 2014, 09:32 PM

Dave, I agree with you the requirements of the media and very likely in combination with the cooling requirement of 4K/50p,60p limited the maximum codec type and frame rates to XAVC-S at 30p/25p and at possibly 60Mbps. If the camera can do 100Mbps then great, most SDXC class 10 cards can take it but heat dissipation could be a problem.

Making the camera body bigger and a slot to accommodate an XQD card would make the camera out of reach of the majority of potential buyers because of the usability and price

Jack Zhang · January 7th, 2014, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacharapong Chiowanich

Making the camera body bigger and a slot to accommodate an XQD card would make the camera out of reach of the majority of potential buyers because of the usability and price

The A1U or NX70 replacement for this camera with the XLR handle may just do that. Who knows, maybe there'll be internal storage in addition to XQD on the pro model.

Andy Wilkinson · January 8th, 2014, 04:49 AM

Back to that Panny in the glass case at CES.

Looks like Panasonic are not letting Sony have the '4K for 2K' (US $) market opportunity all to themselves...

Panasonic's next GH mirrorless camera will record 4K video, arrive late February for under $2,000

Monday Isa · January 8th, 2014, 07:46 AM

I doubt Panasonic will be the only 4K DSLR under $2k this year. Sony will cover all the bases as it looks like they're doing. I want a 4K VG-Series camcorder.

Alister Chapman · January 8th, 2014, 08:05 AM

Yes, you may well be right that this might produce a better image. The sensor should be about 1.5 stops faster, but the lens is 1 to 2 stops slower, so we will have to wait and see.

You can send 60p 4K over 4x 3G HDSDI, that standard exists already. I'm more interested in Sony's NXL technology that will allow you to use gigabit ethernet for 4K.

Ron Evans · January 8th, 2014, 08:09 AM

With its internal recording to a 64G card at 200Mbps for about 30 mins or so it will not be a long format option without the expense of an external recorder. Yes a VG 4K would be nice too. I am sure by the end of the year we may see all the range options appear.

Ron Evans

Ken Ross · January 8th, 2014, 11:09 AM

Well I got to tell you, after watching the sample video on my 1920X1080 23" monitor and then watching it on my ISF'd Samsung F8500 64" plasma and having my wife actually elicit a "WOW!" when showing it to her, I hit the 'preorder' button on Amazon.

So here I am with a brand new RX10, but after seeing that video, down-sampled to 1080p, what can I say, stunning!

I do think the 30p restraint was due to internal heating in a body this small. I don't see it as a "Sony conspiracy".

Jack Zhang · January 8th, 2014, 11:24 AM

I would be the one to wait for 60p and XQD though, or better, a FDR-EA100. (EA50 successor)

I'm also willing to bet a FS700 reboot will not be coming. They fear adding XAVC-S or XAVC to the FS series will cannibalize the F5 and F55 sales.

Henry Olonga · January 8th, 2014, 03:16 PM

Absolutely stunning this - has the real wow factor for me. In fact my dusty DOF adaptor, the Sgblade has just come out of retirement.

Matt Sharp · January 8th, 2014, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

Unfortunately all camera companies still name their sensors with wrong dimensions. Neither the 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 inch sensors are what their name claims, but much smaller. Its a leftover of the tube cameras epoch, where their image area dimensions included the edge of the tube as well.

Sony UK says the sensor is 13.2 x 8.8mm. That makes it 15.86mm or just a bit over 0.6 inch. That's practically false advertising.

David Heath · January 8th, 2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Sharp

Sony UK says the sensor is 13.2 x 8.8mm. That makes it 15.86mm or just a bit over 0.6 inch. That's practically false advertising.

They are just following the normal convention. Yes, it's ridiculous, yes, it's a convention that dates back decades (to tube cameras, exactly as Emmanuel says) and yes, it all needs updating.

But they are only following the same convention as everybody else - if you had a camera that really had taken 1" tubes, then the scanned patch on the target would have had a diagonal of about 16mm.

See Image sensor format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - table at the bottom of the page.

Dave Blackhurst · January 8th, 2014, 06:54 PM

@ Matt -

Sensor size is one of those things where there is a "standard" way to measure, and it doesn't make much sense! It's not "false advertising", it's a technical spec that doesn't mean what you'd think it means... it's even worse when you get the sizes expressed as what appears to be a fraction... but it's not!

Since all the manufacturers are using the same approach to measuring, it's actually all "relative".- what is important is that this sensor has about 4X+ the area of a typical consumer level camera/camcorder, and that it is proving to work quite well - not as big as 4/3rds or APS-C, but a nice improvement over the small sensor cams, while maintaining a manageable size that's close to that of prior cameras with smaller sensors. Net result is "compact" cameras with better performance...

January 7th, 2014, 03:27 PM	#46
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 @ Bruce - The RX100Mk1 was tricky to get good video out of (you have to work at it!), the Mk2 has proven better in that respect - the switch to "R" or BSI or whatever you want to call it seems to have refined the video aspects. Plus Sony engineers have had time to tweak things - in "auto" the 100M2 is great to shoot with, the RX10 is as well, but of course If you want the most out of the camera, you still have all the possible settings one could ask for to fine tune! Auto settings work, but it's nice to have all the tweaks, even if it is a long process to learn them all! I never quite got to where I felt "ready" to use the Mk1 for anything serious video wise although I used it quite a bit because it was the camera I had with me, the Mk2 was shooting video out of the box and getting results I was quite happy with - the Mk1 was doing excellent stills for me, so I still think it is a great camera, and Sony has continued to push the design forward. Finally got to shoot a little more with the RX10, and while I'm still getting used to the camera, at least SOME is pretty eye popping! When the camera adjustments become more natural, I know it will continue to produce good results. The 100M2 will still be hiding in the other end of the camera bag too!

January 7th, 2014, 08:12 PM	#47
Michael Warren Major Player Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Cairns, Australia Posts: 215	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Unlike the sample video for the Z100, I'm very impressed with the AX100 4K sample video scaled to HD. That's the sharpest HD I've ever seen. __________________ -Mike http://mike-warren.net

January 7th, 2014, 09:15 PM	#48
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Yes. And the difference when the YouTube 4K (UHD) file was played back on my iMac's 2560x1440 screen vs the 1080p file played back full screen on the same screen was very noticeable. For all intent and purpose, I think most people who view 4K video from the AX100 on the newer 4K HDTVs will definitely see it as an improvement over 1080p despite the frame rates being only 30p/25p and compressed at relatively low bit rates. By the time 4K has established a firm foothold in the general media consumption, maybe late 2014 or later, I doubt if Canon or Panasonic will be able to compete especially in the consumer video market.

January 7th, 2014, 09:32 PM	#49
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Dave, I agree with you the requirements of the media and very likely in combination with the cooling requirement of 4K/50p,60p limited the maximum codec type and frame rates to XAVC-S at 30p/25p and at possibly 60Mbps. If the camera can do 100Mbps then great, most SDXC class 10 cards can take it but heat dissipation could be a problem. Making the camera body bigger and a slot to accommodate an XQD card would make the camera out of reach of the majority of potential buyers because of the usability and price

January 8th, 2014, 04:49 AM	#51
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Back to that Panny in the glass case at CES. Looks like Panasonic are not letting Sony have the '4K for 2K' (US $) market opportunity all to themselves... Panasonic's next GH mirrorless camera will record 4K video, arrive late February for under $2,000 __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 8th, 2014, 07:46 AM	#52
Monday Isa Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: College Park, Maryland Posts: 913	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I doubt Panasonic will be the only 4K DSLR under $2k this year. Sony will cover all the bases as it looks like they're doing. I want a 4K VG-Series camcorder.

January 8th, 2014, 08:05 AM	#53
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Yes, you may well be right that this might produce a better image. The sensor should be about 1.5 stops faster, but the lens is 1 to 2 stops slower, so we will have to wait and see. You can send 60p 4K over 4x 3G HDSDI, that standard exists already. I'm more interested in Sony's NXL technology that will allow you to use gigabit ethernet for 4K. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 8th, 2014, 08:09 AM	#54
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 With its internal recording to a 64G card at 200Mbps for about 30 mins or so it will not be a long format option without the expense of an external recorder. Yes a VG 4K would be nice too. I am sure by the end of the year we may see all the range options appear. Ron Evans

January 8th, 2014, 11:09 AM	#55
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Well I got to tell you, after watching the sample video on my 1920X1080 23" monitor and then watching it on my ISF'd Samsung F8500 64" plasma and having my wife actually elicit a "WOW!" when showing it to her, I hit the 'preorder' button on Amazon. So here I am with a brand new RX10, but after seeing that video, down-sampled to 1080p, what can I say, stunning! I do think the 30p restraint was due to internal heating in a body this small. I don't see it as a "Sony conspiracy".

January 8th, 2014, 11:24 AM	#56
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 I would be the one to wait for 60p and XQD though, or better, a FDR-EA100. (EA50 successor) I'm also willing to bet a FS700 reboot will not be coming. They fear adding XAVC-S or XAVC to the FS series will cannibalize the F5 and F55 sales.

January 8th, 2014, 03:16 PM	#57
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 Absolutely stunning this - has the real wow factor for me. In fact my dusty DOF adaptor, the Sgblade has just come out of retirement. __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

January 8th, 2014, 06:54 PM	#60
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Sony FDR-AX100 @ Matt - Sensor size is one of those things where there is a "standard" way to measure, and it doesn't make much sense! It's not "false advertising", it's a technical spec that doesn't mean what you'd think it means... it's even worse when you get the sizes expressed as what appears to be a fraction... but it's not! Since all the manufacturers are using the same approach to measuring, it's actually all "relative".- what is important is that this sensor has about 4X+ the area of a typical consumer level camera/camcorder, and that it is proving to work quite well - not as big as 4/3rds or APS-C, but a nice improvement over the small sensor cams, while maintaining a manageable size that's close to that of prior cameras with smaller sensors. Net result is "compact" cameras with better performance...