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Jonathan Thursby · June 30th, 2009, 06:56 AM

I would like to hear from everyone who uses HD mini cams on the flash XDR, we currently have and use, Tosh HD1, Ikonix, Modula HD Junior,Ikegami HD-L20 and Bradley BE-HD10 none of which are accepted by the BBC as HD!!!

So what are your exeperiences and are there any other solutions?

Jonathan

Steve Phillipps · June 30th, 2009, 10:27 AM

In what way are they not accepted by BBC? I've used the Iconix and it's terrific, can't imagine a BBC programme at any level refusing to use it if recorded to HDCam etc. or the XDR.
Steve

Alister Chapman · June 30th, 2009, 02:28 PM

HXR-MC1P feeding Flash XDR or NanoFlash is an option but I doubt that will get BBC approval either. Could try the JVC HM100, it is very small.

Jeff Silverman · June 30th, 2009, 03:16 PM

Johathan,

We use our own custom version of the HD-10 which uses prime lenses and is smaller than the well built Bradley design. We have had problems which we are hoping will be fixed with the firmware released today. We will be testing this tomorrow.

We have had no problems using the Toshiba IKHD-1.

We haven't found a client yet who likes the noisy Iconix, especially with the boat anchor CCU it comes with.

It's too bad that the BBC guidelines preclude use of almost any HD POV camera short of the Silicon Imaging camera (I guess).

We are in line for some of the earlier Nanos. I will test them with several of the HD POV cameras and post the results.

Jeff

Jeff

Chris Atebr · July 2nd, 2009, 01:29 AM

I use the Tosh HD on my Polecam system. Pictures are cracking and in my opinion far better than the Iconix. I work a lot for the BBC and I suspect that someone has taken the desicion that any camera with a chip size less than 2/3 is not deemed to be HD. I recently spent almost a week prior to a shoot discussing 'what is hd?' with a production manager. HD programme makers are allowed 25% 'non HD' footage, when I turned up, the shoot consisted of my Polecam a DVC Pro HD and two Z1''s !!!!.

The proof is in the pictures. The Tosh looks great.

Jonathan Thursby · July 2nd, 2009, 04:43 AM

I agree the tosh is good, its just the BBC guidelines so at the moment it is only accepted as SD and goes toward their 30% allowable footage.

David Rogers · July 4th, 2009, 09:46 PM

Jonathan, I am interested in your experiences with the Modula camera. I have had discussions with the project manager at Fraunhofer about that camera for the past two years. I have tried to contact the folks at both Wige and Easylook since their cameras are based on the Fraunhofer product. Could you tell me more about the Easylook/Modula camera, how is it powered, what are the maximum cable lengths, how is controlled (I really like the idea of a one piece instead of two like the Ikegami, Tosihba, and Iconix), etc. Also what about the Bradley, pros/cons.

Thanks
David Rogers

Jeff Silverman · July 5th, 2009, 07:25 AM

David,

We use the HD-10 a lot (like one Bradley uses). The Gophercam on NASCAR is based on that camera (a very highly modified version) for the past 2 years. The reaction we get from most video engineers is surprise it looks so good. When it is set to -3db gain it is very quiet. It can output basically any SD or HD format except 24p. Since the matrix in it is Sony blockcam (read handicam really) based, it matches very well with Sony cameras. The buildups for it we have developed allow SD/HD-SDI and component output. Bradley Engineering has a decent RCP for it but you can shade it from a laptop as well.

Price of course is the best part, and it would make a very nice lightweight companion to the Nano.

Jeff

Steve Phillipps · July 5th, 2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Thursby

I agree the tosh is good, its just the BBC guidelines so at the moment it is only accepted as SD and goes toward their 30% allowable footage.

It'd be a pretty unusual programme if it was shot more than 30% on a minicam. This ruling is there for things like this, non-standard kit having to be used for logistical reason, so hidden cameras, underwater, small spaces, unique footage shot by tourists, anything that justifies being in the programme at less than optimal quality due to it's special content.
I'm still surprised by the negative comments on the Iconix, haven't used it much but stuff I did from it onto HDCam field recorder looked fantastic to me.
Steve

Jeff Silverman · July 5th, 2009, 08:33 AM

Steve,

The problems which I have faced with the Iconix are two.

1. It is noisy and does not cut well with other cameras.

2. The huge CCU precludes it's use in many true POV situations. A (1080i only) Toshiba CCU by comparison is much smaller. The HD-10 doesn't need a CCU as you know and combined with a Nano will be the ticket.

It has one big advantage, it can do 24p.

The more general problem with 3 chip, 1/3 cameras is the general lack of a good selection of HD lenses. There are a few, but the most common lenses used with any of those cameras, the 2.8mm and 4mm C-Mount Fujis are SD lenses. Chromatic aberration and resolution are noticeable problems.

Your neighbor David Bradley has done an outstanding job adapting the single 1/3" chip HD-10, including one approach using a B4 mount. The camera was used by the host as the stabilized wire cam in the Olympic rowing events. It looked outstanding. We have also adapted the HD-10 using interchangeable 1/3" prime lenses and a waterproof housing.

Jeff

Steve Phillipps · July 5th, 2009, 08:56 AM

Well I'll have to take your word for it, maybe you've used it more than I have. I only did a couple of shoots with its underwater housing and it was cut in with Sony HDCam 750 and to me it looked great. If anything the only difference was it looked a bit sharp compared to the 750 with its filmic BBC settings. We had the suite of lenses that came with it and they all looked good to me. I'll give it a more careful look next time!
Steve

Mike Sertic · July 5th, 2009, 09:41 AM

I am purchasing a nano for use with a POV camera and am currently leaning towards the Toshiba IK-HR1S, as I need something that accepts a C-mount lens (I want to use the fujinon 1.8mm fisheye) and does not have a bulky and power-hungry CCU. Does anyone have any experience with that camera?

Jeff or anyone else, do you have any experience modifying the sony HD10 to remove the stock lens and convert it to a C-mount? I would be very interested to know if this is a fairly straightforward operation, the sony is several thousand dollars less expensive than the Toshiba IK-HR1S despite having fairly similar specs.

David Rogers · July 5th, 2009, 12:17 PM

Jeff would you send me information on HD10 camera system.

Thanks
David

Jeff Silverman · July 6th, 2009, 05:25 AM

Mike,

We have completely redesigned the HD-10, reorganized it's boards, added a HD-SDI output board and rehousing it, minus the stock 10x lens. The current version we make takes a Elmo lens but converting it (actually rebuilding the lens mount) to C-mount would be very easy.

I will find out today how tough it would be to make it with a C-Mount.

I only saw a prototype version of the HR1S about 8 months ago and wasn't able to compare it to anything else.

David,

I'll get you info on the HD-10. It does match the info of what's on Bradley's site, only it is smaller, waterproof right out of the box, and has interchangeable lenses.

Jeff

David Rogers · July 6th, 2009, 09:53 AM

Thank you Jeff, I look forward to receiving the info.

David

June 30th, 2009, 06:56 AM	#1
Jonathan Thursby New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Norwich Posts: 19	HD Minicams I would like to hear from everyone who uses HD mini cams on the flash XDR, we currently have and use, Tosh HD1, Ikonix, Modula HD Junior,Ikegami HD-L20 and Bradley BE-HD10 none of which are accepted by the BBC as HD!!! So what are your exeperiences and are there any other solutions? Jonathan

June 30th, 2009, 02:28 PM	#3
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	HXR-MC1P feeding Flash XDR or NanoFlash is an option but I doubt that will get BBC approval either. Could try the JVC HM100, it is very small. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

July 2nd, 2009, 01:29 AM	#5
Chris Atebr New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: llangynidr UK Posts: 23	Hd Minicams I use the Tosh HD on my Polecam system. Pictures are cracking and in my opinion far better than the Iconix. I work a lot for the BBC and I suspect that someone has taken the desicion that any camera with a chip size less than 2/3 is not deemed to be HD. I recently spent almost a week prior to a shoot discussing 'what is hd?' with a production manager. HD programme makers are allowed 25% 'non HD' footage, when I turned up, the shoot consisted of my Polecam a DVC Pro HD and two Z1''s !!!!. The proof is in the pictures. The Tosh looks great.

July 4th, 2009, 09:46 PM	#7
David Rogers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nashvegas, TN Posts: 79	Minicams Jonathan, I am interested in your experiences with the Modula camera. I have had discussions with the project manager at Fraunhofer about that camera for the past two years. I have tried to contact the folks at both Wige and Easylook since their cameras are based on the Fraunhofer product. Could you tell me more about the Easylook/Modula camera, how is it powered, what are the maximum cable lengths, how is controlled (I really like the idea of a one piece instead of two like the Ikegami, Tosihba, and Iconix), etc. Also what about the Bradley, pros/cons. Thanks David Rogers

July 5th, 2009, 12:17 PM	#13
David Rogers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nashvegas, TN Posts: 79	Minicam HD Jeff would you send me information on HD10 camera system. Thanks David

June 30th, 2009, 10:27 AM	#2
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	In what way are they not accepted by BBC? I've used the Iconix and it's terrific, can't imagine a BBC programme at any level refusing to use it if recorded to HDCam etc. or the XDR. Steve

June 30th, 2009, 03:16 PM	#4
Jeff Silverman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jacksonville, VT USA Posts: 100	Johathan, We use our own custom version of the HD-10 which uses prime lenses and is smaller than the well built Bradley design. We have had problems which we are hoping will be fixed with the firmware released today. We will be testing this tomorrow. We have had no problems using the Toshiba IKHD-1. We haven't found a client yet who likes the noisy Iconix, especially with the boat anchor CCU it comes with. It's too bad that the BBC guidelines preclude use of almost any HD POV camera short of the Silicon Imaging camera (I guess). We are in line for some of the earlier Nanos. I will test them with several of the HD POV cameras and post the results. Jeff Jeff

July 2nd, 2009, 04:43 AM	#6
Jonathan Thursby New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Norwich Posts: 19	I agree the tosh is good, its just the BBC guidelines so at the moment it is only accepted as SD and goes toward their 30% allowable footage.

July 5th, 2009, 07:25 AM	#8
Jeff Silverman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jacksonville, VT USA Posts: 100	David, We use the HD-10 a lot (like one Bradley uses). The Gophercam on NASCAR is based on that camera (a very highly modified version) for the past 2 years. The reaction we get from most video engineers is surprise it looks so good. When it is set to -3db gain it is very quiet. It can output basically any SD or HD format except 24p. Since the matrix in it is Sony blockcam (read handicam really) based, it matches very well with Sony cameras. The buildups for it we have developed allow SD/HD-SDI and component output. Bradley Engineering has a decent RCP for it but you can shade it from a laptop as well. Price of course is the best part, and it would make a very nice lightweight companion to the Nano. Jeff

July 5th, 2009, 08:33 AM	#10
Jeff Silverman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jacksonville, VT USA Posts: 100	Steve, The problems which I have faced with the Iconix are two. 1. It is noisy and does not cut well with other cameras. 2. The huge CCU precludes it's use in many true POV situations. A (1080i only) Toshiba CCU by comparison is much smaller. The HD-10 doesn't need a CCU as you know and combined with a Nano will be the ticket. It has one big advantage, it can do 24p. The more general problem with 3 chip, 1/3 cameras is the general lack of a good selection of HD lenses. There are a few, but the most common lenses used with any of those cameras, the 2.8mm and 4mm C-Mount Fujis are SD lenses. Chromatic aberration and resolution are noticeable problems. Your neighbor David Bradley has done an outstanding job adapting the single 1/3" chip HD-10, including one approach using a B4 mount. The camera was used by the host as the stabilized wire cam in the Olympic rowing events. It looked outstanding. We have also adapted the HD-10 using interchangeable 1/3" prime lenses and a waterproof housing. Jeff

July 5th, 2009, 08:56 AM	#11
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Well I'll have to take your word for it, maybe you've used it more than I have. I only did a couple of shoots with its underwater housing and it was cut in with Sony HDCam 750 and to me it looked great. If anything the only difference was it looked a bit sharp compared to the 750 with its filmic BBC settings. We had the suite of lenses that came with it and they all looked good to me. I'll give it a more careful look next time! Steve

July 5th, 2009, 09:41 AM	#12
Mike Sertic Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 43	I am purchasing a nano for use with a POV camera and am currently leaning towards the Toshiba IK-HR1S, as I need something that accepts a C-mount lens (I want to use the fujinon 1.8mm fisheye) and does not have a bulky and power-hungry CCU. Does anyone have any experience with that camera? Jeff or anyone else, do you have any experience modifying the sony HD10 to remove the stock lens and convert it to a C-mount? I would be very interested to know if this is a fairly straightforward operation, the sony is several thousand dollars less expensive than the Toshiba IK-HR1S despite having fairly similar specs.

July 6th, 2009, 05:25 AM	#14
Jeff Silverman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jacksonville, VT USA Posts: 100	Mike, We have completely redesigned the HD-10, reorganized it's boards, added a HD-SDI output board and rehousing it, minus the stock 10x lens. The current version we make takes a Elmo lens but converting it (actually rebuilding the lens mount) to C-mount would be very easy. I will find out today how tough it would be to make it with a C-Mount. I only saw a prototype version of the HR1S about 8 months ago and wasn't able to compare it to anything else. David, I'll get you info on the HD-10. It does match the info of what's on Bradley's site, only it is smaller, waterproof right out of the box, and has interchangeable lenses. Jeff

July 6th, 2009, 09:53 AM	#15
David Rogers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Nashvegas, TN Posts: 79	HD Minicams Thank you Jeff, I look forward to receiving the info. David