Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras at DVinfo.net

Rob Knoll · October 21st, 2011, 04:04 PM

Hello DVinfo Hivemind,

SITUATION : I am shooting a friend's wedding this weekend, and will be using my XF100 as the "A" camera, and a Canon HF100 as the "B" camera. Obviously there are only a few similaritys between the cameras, and a litany of differences, but that is what I had at my disposal. (I will also toss in a GoPro for kicks and giggles.)

QUESTIONS:
1.) Has anyone had experience matching footage between these or similar cameras?
2.) Are there any general rules of thumb when it comes to matching footage?
3.) What program do you recommed for doing color matching in Post? (I am not doing any editing for this project, but it is good general knowlege...)
4.) What is your favorite Beatles song?

You may post your answers to one or any of these questions.
As always, you expertice will benefit not only me, but those who scour the interwebs for answers to video questions from pros.

Thanks in advance,
Rob

David Dixon · October 22nd, 2011, 11:15 AM

I have the XF100 and used to have the HF10, which was sort of the predecessor to the HF100. The biggest difference I remember is that the HF series comes with more "touristy" or punchy settings on the color, contrast, blacks, etc. The XF will be much flatter by default. I'm no expert, but I would make sure on the XF I was using custom picture settings that had the sharpness and color matrix bumped up and the blacks crushed. That will get you closer, from my experience and avoid doing so much adjustments in post. The other thing to consider is that the XF will be MUCH better than the HF in low light.

Rob Knoll · October 22nd, 2011, 01:00 PM

Thanks David,
I was noticing on the HF that it has scene settings for "Vivid" and the like ,but it also has a neutral setting.
While I won't have as much room for grading on the AVCHD footage, the XF can more than comply.

Is that sound reasoning? Take the camera with the least ammount of image control, and match the pro footage to that? Sounds good to me, but perhaps there is somthing I am missing.

Doug Bailey · October 22nd, 2011, 01:36 PM

Rob,
I have similar thoughts on how to get the XF300 and 7D matching. They are different codecs with very different settings & looks. One thought is to convert the XF files to H264 which is the standard 7D format, join the clips, then apply Magic Bullet or similar. We don' t have Magic Bullet so haven't tried this, but wonder if the idea is valid.
Regards,
Doug.

Lou Bruno · October 22nd, 2011, 01:59 PM

I made this to match the HF s10/11/21 The only change you may make is bringing the COLOR MATRIX to #25 instead of #20 if you are in bright light.

CPName : "CRUSHBLK"

Protect : Unprotect
Gamma : Cine2
Black - Master Pedestal : -3
Black - Master Black-Red : 0
Black - Master Black-Green : 0
Black - Master Black-Blue : 0
Black Gamma - Level : -7
Black Gamma - Range : -3
Black Gamma - Point : 0
Low Key Satur. - Enable : On
Low Key Satur. - Level : 5
Knee - Enable : On
Knee - Automatic : On
Knee - Slope : 11
Knee - Point : 95
Knee - Saturation : 0
Sharpness - Level : 0
Sharpness - H Detail Freq. : 8
Sharpness - Coring-Level : 0
Sharpness - Coring-D-Ofst : 0
Sharpness - Coring-D-Curve : 0
Sharpness - Coring-D-Depth : 0
Sharpness - HV Detail Bal. : 5
Sharpness - Limit : 0
Sharpness - Knee Aperture-Gain : 0
Sharpness - Knee Aperture-Slope : 1
Sharpness - Level Depend-Level : 0
Sharpness - Level Depend-Slope : 0
Sharpness - Level Depend-Offset : 0
Sharpness - Ingredient Ratio : 0
Noise Reduction : Automatic
Skin Detail - Effect Level : Off
Skin Detail - Hue : 0
Skin Detail - Chroma : 16
Skin Detail - Area : 16
Skin Detail - Y Level : 16
Selective NR - Effect Level : Off
Selective NR - Hue : 0
Selective NR - Chroma : 16
Selective NR - Area : 16
Selective NR - Y Level : 16
Color Matrix - Select : Normal3
Color Matrix - Gain : 20
Color Matrix - Phase : 0
Color Matrix - R-G : -8
Color Matrix - R-B : 0
Color Matrix - G-R : -4
Color Matrix - G-B : 0
Color Matrix - B-R : 0
Color Matrix - B-G : 0
White Balance - R Gain : -5
White Balance - G Gain : 0
White Balance - B Gain : 0
Color Correction - Select Area : Off
Color Correction - Area A Setting-Phase : 0
Color Correction - Area A Setting-Chroma : 16
Color Correction - Area A Setting-Area : 16
Color Correction - Area A Setting-Y Level : 16
Color Correction - Area A Revision-Level : 0
Color Correction - Area A Revision-Phase : 0
Color Correction - Area B Setting-Phase : 0
Color Correction - Area B Setting-Chroma : 16
Color Correction - Area B Setting-Area : 16
Color Correction - Area B Setting-Y Level : 16
Color Correction - Area B Revision-Level : 0
Color Correction - Area B Revision-Phase : 0
Other Functions - Setup Level-Level : -5
Other Functions - Setup Level-Press : On
Other Functions - Clip At 100% : On

David Dixon · October 23rd, 2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Knoll

Thanks David,
I was noticing on the HF that it has scene settings for "Vivid" and the like ,but it also has a neutral setting.
While I won't have as much room for grading on the AVCHD footage, the XF can more than comply.

Is that sound reasoning? Take the camera with the least ammount of image control, and match the pro footage to that? Sounds good to me, but perhaps there is somthing I am missing.

Rob, yes, I was implying that it would probably be easier to adjust the XF100 to get a look similar to the HF100 than the other way around. I don't remember if my HF10 had the neutral or vivid settings, but I rather liked the standard look, and did not really want anything more vivid. It sounds like Lou agrees, as evidenced by his posting of a starting custom picture file for you to try.

Just try these settings in your best guess of similar lighting, and again once you get to the venue. I would try Cine1 gamma as well as Cine2 - might be worse, might not.

Jim Martin · October 25th, 2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Bailey

Rob,
I have similar thoughts on how to get the XF300 and 7D matching. They are different codecs with very different settings & looks. One thought is to convert the XF files to H264 which is the standard 7D format, join the clips, then apply Magic Bullet or similar. We don' t have Magic Bullet so haven't tried this, but wonder if the idea is valid.
Regards,
Doug.

I'd probably got the other way......stay with the XF codec and bump the h264 up to pro-res 422 or on other editing systems, bump it up to a better codec that matches the XF's 50mb, 422 codec....

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Doug Bailey · October 26th, 2011, 05:25 PM

Thanks for the input Jim, makes sense.

I'm using CS5.5 Premiere Pro. What export setting for the H264 files would do this?

Regards,
Doug.

Ben Creighton · November 2nd, 2011, 10:57 AM

I find this thread interesting as I have a 7D and am planning to order a Panny AG AC-130 as soon as they are available. I am assuming my workflow will be:

Ingest footage from both cams into MacPro. Transcode both to Apple ProRes 422. Proceed to FCP timeline.
Of course, I can't yet speak to matching settings at the production level, since I haven't laid hands on the new Panny yet. (Actually, I am going to order 2 of them bad boys).

I also have a GoPro Hero2 on it's way to me. Rob, you didn't say anything about matching up that footage with your other cams. I, also, will only use the GoPro for 'kicks and giggles' when doing wedding videos - maybe suction cup it to the hood of the limo or something. I assume I will need to do the same transcoding of that footage in FCP?

So what do you think? Is it viable to nicely match up a 7D, AC-130 and GoPro?

...and I really like "Let It Be" ;)

October 21st, 2011, 04:04 PM	#1
Rob Knoll Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: New York Posts: 51	Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras Hello DVinfo Hivemind, SITUATION : I am shooting a friend's wedding this weekend, and will be using my XF100 as the "A" camera, and a Canon HF100 as the "B" camera. Obviously there are only a few similaritys between the cameras, and a litany of differences, but that is what I had at my disposal. (I will also toss in a GoPro for kicks and giggles.) QUESTIONS: 1.) Has anyone had experience matching footage between these or similar cameras? 2.) Are there any general rules of thumb when it comes to matching footage? 3.) What program do you recommed for doing color matching in Post? (I am not doing any editing for this project, but it is good general knowlege...) 4.) What is your favorite Beatles song? You may post your answers to one or any of these questions. As always, you expertice will benefit not only me, but those who scour the interwebs for answers to video questions from pros. Thanks in advance, Rob

October 22nd, 2011, 01:00 PM	#3
Rob Knoll Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: New York Posts: 51	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras Thanks David, I was noticing on the HF that it has scene settings for "Vivid" and the like ,but it also has a neutral setting. While I won't have as much room for grading on the AVCHD footage, the XF can more than comply. Is that sound reasoning? Take the camera with the least ammount of image control, and match the pro footage to that? Sounds good to me, but perhaps there is somthing I am missing.

October 22nd, 2011, 01:36 PM	#4
Doug Bailey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 164	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras Rob, I have similar thoughts on how to get the XF300 and 7D matching. They are different codecs with very different settings & looks. One thought is to convert the XF files to H264 which is the standard 7D format, join the clips, then apply Magic Bullet or similar. We don' t have Magic Bullet so haven't tried this, but wonder if the idea is valid. Regards, Doug.

October 22nd, 2011, 01:59 PM	#5
Lou Bruno Go Cycle Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 815	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras I made this to match the HF s10/11/21 The only change you may make is bringing the COLOR MATRIX to #25 instead of #20 if you are in bright light. CPName : "CRUSHBLK" Protect : Unprotect Gamma : Cine2 Black - Master Pedestal : -3 Black - Master Black-Red : 0 Black - Master Black-Green : 0 Black - Master Black-Blue : 0 Black Gamma - Level : -7 Black Gamma - Range : -3 Black Gamma - Point : 0 Low Key Satur. - Enable : On Low Key Satur. - Level : 5 Knee - Enable : On Knee - Automatic : On Knee - Slope : 11 Knee - Point : 95 Knee - Saturation : 0 Sharpness - Level : 0 Sharpness - H Detail Freq. : 8 Sharpness - Coring-Level : 0 Sharpness - Coring-D-Ofst : 0 Sharpness - Coring-D-Curve : 0 Sharpness - Coring-D-Depth : 0 Sharpness - HV Detail Bal. : 5 Sharpness - Limit : 0 Sharpness - Knee Aperture-Gain : 0 Sharpness - Knee Aperture-Slope : 1 Sharpness - Level Depend-Level : 0 Sharpness - Level Depend-Slope : 0 Sharpness - Level Depend-Offset : 0 Sharpness - Ingredient Ratio : 0 Noise Reduction : Automatic Skin Detail - Effect Level : Off Skin Detail - Hue : 0 Skin Detail - Chroma : 16 Skin Detail - Area : 16 Skin Detail - Y Level : 16 Selective NR - Effect Level : Off Selective NR - Hue : 0 Selective NR - Chroma : 16 Selective NR - Area : 16 Selective NR - Y Level : 16 Color Matrix - Select : Normal3 Color Matrix - Gain : 20 Color Matrix - Phase : 0 Color Matrix - R-G : -8 Color Matrix - R-B : 0 Color Matrix - G-R : -4 Color Matrix - G-B : 0 Color Matrix - B-R : 0 Color Matrix - B-G : 0 White Balance - R Gain : -5 White Balance - G Gain : 0 White Balance - B Gain : 0 Color Correction - Select Area : Off Color Correction - Area A Setting-Phase : 0 Color Correction - Area A Setting-Chroma : 16 Color Correction - Area A Setting-Area : 16 Color Correction - Area A Setting-Y Level : 16 Color Correction - Area A Revision-Level : 0 Color Correction - Area A Revision-Phase : 0 Color Correction - Area B Setting-Phase : 0 Color Correction - Area B Setting-Chroma : 16 Color Correction - Area B Setting-Area : 16 Color Correction - Area B Setting-Y Level : 16 Color Correction - Area B Revision-Level : 0 Color Correction - Area B Revision-Phase : 0 Other Functions - Setup Level-Level : -5 Other Functions - Setup Level-Press : On Other Functions - Clip At 100% : On __________________ Lou Bruno

October 26th, 2011, 05:25 PM	#8
Doug Bailey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 164	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras Thanks for the input Jim, makes sense. I'm using CS5.5 Premiere Pro. What export setting for the H264 files would do this? Regards, Doug.

October 22nd, 2011, 11:15 AM	#2
David Dixon Major Player Join Date: May 2011 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 495	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras I have the XF100 and used to have the HF10, which was sort of the predecessor to the HF100. The biggest difference I remember is that the HF series comes with more "touristy" or punchy settings on the color, contrast, blacks, etc. The XF will be much flatter by default. I'm no expert, but I would make sure on the XF I was using custom picture settings that had the sharpness and color matrix bumped up and the blacks crushed. That will get you closer, from my experience and avoid doing so much adjustments in post. The other thing to consider is that the XF will be MUCH better than the HF in low light.

November 2nd, 2011, 10:57 AM	#9
Ben Creighton Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Kingsburg, California Posts: 84	Re: Matching XF100 footage with HF100 or Other Small Cameras I find this thread interesting as I have a 7D and am planning to order a Panny AG AC-130 as soon as they are available. I am assuming my workflow will be: Ingest footage from both cams into MacPro. Transcode both to Apple ProRes 422. Proceed to FCP timeline. Of course, I can't yet speak to matching settings at the production level, since I haven't laid hands on the new Panny yet. (Actually, I am going to order 2 of them bad boys). I also have a GoPro Hero2 on it's way to me. Rob, you didn't say anything about matching up that footage with your other cams. I, also, will only use the GoPro for 'kicks and giggles' when doing wedding videos - maybe suction cup it to the hood of the limo or something. I assume I will need to do the same transcoding of that footage in FCP? So what do you think? Is it viable to nicely match up a 7D, AC-130 and GoPro? ...and I really like "Let It Be" ;)