Canon HG10 and HV20 side by side -- pics at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · August 9th, 2007, 12:38 AM

Props to DV Info Net member (and fellow Longhorn) Austin Meyers who drove down and met me earlier today so we could pit the new Canon HG10 side by side with the Canon HV20 in a "most other things equal" test between AVCHD and HDV. This will develop quite a bit, but I wanted to at least show you some pics tonight (click the thumbnails to see 'em big) and we'll have a lot more input to follow.

Chris Hurd · August 9th, 2007, 12:42 AM

My apologies in advance to Austin for stealing some of his thunder, but here is the quick rundown of what he observed regarding camcorder features... I'll let him expound on this in a little more detail at his convenience about these significant differences, but I wanted to go ahead and briefly get the word out now:

1. Focus Assist: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have Peaking (although it does have Magnification).

2. Exposure Monitoring: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have Zebras (HV20 has 70% and 100%)

3. Audio: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have manual audio level control (it does have a mic input).

4. Manual Focus: Austin said he prefers the ergonomics of the HG10's selector wheel over the HV20's dial.

Lots more to follow (about features and ergonomics... plus video, both 60i and 24p). Stay tuned,

Robert Batta · August 9th, 2007, 02:18 AM

no zebras in HG10 :( ..... this bad news

Steve Royer · August 9th, 2007, 11:32 AM

Couldn't you create a zebra chart and place it in front of the camera, or something similar to get the same results? Pardon my ignorance on the matter.

This thread is incredible, and it's what I've been waiting for since i found this site... the best HDV camcorder compared directly to the best HDD camcorder. Thanks for everything and keep it coming! I'm so glad I've waited before purchasing, but I'm running out of time before I need to make a decision.

Austin Meyers · August 9th, 2007, 12:50 PM

i think you might be mistaking color bars... the zebras show what's overexposed (100% or 70% on the hv20)

overall i was fairly impressed with this camera. i'll know more this evening when i meet up with chris to pull some footage off of it into FCP, we'll be able to do some direct comparisons of stuff shot with my hv20 and the hg10, and also figure out the workflow implications in fcp/imovie. i made sure to shoot alot of fast pans and high motion stuff so we can see how well the avchd codec holds up. i'm also quite interested in seeing how the 24p is handled, i get the feeling that it's going to be exactly the same as removing pulldown from the hv20, i know FCP has a "remove advanced pulldown" abilty when ingesting avchd, but i doubt that it will work on the normal unflagged (just guessing) stream.

i'll also have some more notes to give after i get to see the footage full quality (exposure bias, color, lcd factors etc)

anyways i'll post up some clips once i get them worked over this evening...

Adam Perry · August 10th, 2007, 01:50 PM

I'll be interested to see what you think about 24p from this camera. I know (reference removed) said it was all but unusable.

Chris Hurd · August 10th, 2007, 02:08 PM

Beware of such unsubstantiated claims made elsewhere on the web (and I've removed that particular reference from your post). Austin has ingested all of our HV20 and HG10 clips into Final Cut Pro, including a healthy mix of 24p material. At first glance, we didn't see any noticeable difference between these two camcorders in their 24p implementations. Please allow him to make the analysis for DV Info Net instead of blindly relying on outside sources which make claims without showing any proof.

We're going to upload some side-by-side 24p comparisons between the HV20 and HG10 for you to look at for yourself. If there is a big difference, and whether or not 24p from the HG10 really is "unusable," we're going to offer proof of it. At this point I'm not saying it's usable or not usable -- I'm not saying it's the same or different from 24p in the HV20 right now -- I'll let Austin Meyers be the judge of that. What I am saying is that either way, if it is or if it isn't, we're going to show it to you for you to judge for yourself instead of just saying "well, we looked at it and here's what we think." Because that kind of claim doesn't really have any kind of validity unless it's backed up by presenting the actual data for your own examination. Hope this helps,

Chris Hurd · August 10th, 2007, 02:15 PM

And here it is... with the video clips to prove it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Meyers

...from what I could tell the 24p on this camera handles exactly the same as the hv20.

See his report and download the clips for your own analysis:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101059

Hope this helps,

August 9th, 2007, 12:38 AM	#1
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Canon HG10 and HV20 side by side -- pics Props to DV Info Net member (and fellow Longhorn) Austin Meyers who drove down and met me earlier today so we could pit the new Canon HG10 side by side with the Canon HV20 in a "most other things equal" test between AVCHD and HDV. This will develop quite a bit, but I wanted to at least show you some pics tonight (click the thumbnails to see 'em big) and we'll have a lot more input to follow. Attached Thumbnails __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 9th, 2007, 12:42 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	My apologies in advance to Austin for stealing some of his thunder, but here is the quick rundown of what he observed regarding camcorder features... I'll let him expound on this in a little more detail at his convenience about these significant differences, but I wanted to go ahead and briefly get the word out now: 1. Focus Assist: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have Peaking (although it does have Magnification). 2. Exposure Monitoring: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have Zebras (HV20 has 70% and 100%) 3. Audio: unlike the HV20, the HG10 does not have manual audio level control (it does have a mic input). 4. Manual Focus: Austin said he prefers the ergonomics of the HG10's selector wheel over the HV20's dial. Lots more to follow (about features and ergonomics... plus video, both 60i and 24p). Stay tuned, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 9th, 2007, 02:18 AM	#3
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	no zebras in HG10 :( ..... this bad news __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

August 9th, 2007, 12:50 PM	#5
Austin Meyers Contributor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: austin, tx Posts: 300	i think you might be mistaking color bars... the zebras show what's overexposed (100% or 70% on the hv20) overall i was fairly impressed with this camera. i'll know more this evening when i meet up with chris to pull some footage off of it into FCP, we'll be able to do some direct comparisons of stuff shot with my hv20 and the hg10, and also figure out the workflow implications in fcp/imovie. i made sure to shoot alot of fast pans and high motion stuff so we can see how well the avchd codec holds up. i'm also quite interested in seeing how the 24p is handled, i get the feeling that it's going to be exactly the same as removing pulldown from the hv20, i know FCP has a "remove advanced pulldown" abilty when ingesting avchd, but i doubt that it will work on the normal unflagged (just guessing) stream. i'll also have some more notes to give after i get to see the footage full quality (exposure bias, color, lcd factors etc) anyways i'll post up some clips once i get them worked over this evening... __________________ Compositing is my life right now. IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/

August 10th, 2007, 02:08 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Beware of such unsubstantiated claims made elsewhere on the web (and I've removed that particular reference from your post). Austin has ingested all of our HV20 and HG10 clips into Final Cut Pro, including a healthy mix of 24p material. At first glance, we didn't see any noticeable difference between these two camcorders in their 24p implementations. Please allow him to make the analysis for DV Info Net instead of blindly relying on outside sources which make claims without showing any proof. We're going to upload some side-by-side 24p comparisons between the HV20 and HG10 for you to look at for yourself. If there is a big difference, and whether or not 24p from the HG10 really is "unusable," we're going to offer proof of it. At this point I'm not saying it's usable or not usable -- I'm not saying it's the same or different from 24p in the HV20 right now -- I'll let Austin Meyers be the judge of that. What I am saying is that either way, if it is or if it isn't, we're going to show it to you for you to judge for yourself instead of just saying "well, we looked at it and here's what we think." Because that kind of claim doesn't really have any kind of validity unless it's backed up by presenting the actual data for your own examination. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 9th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#4
Steve Royer Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 38	Couldn't you create a zebra chart and place it in front of the camera, or something similar to get the same results? Pardon my ignorance on the matter. This thread is incredible, and it's what I've been waiting for since i found this site... the best HDV camcorder compared directly to the best HDD camcorder. Thanks for everything and keep it coming! I'm so glad I've waited before purchasing, but I'm running out of time before I need to make a decision.

August 10th, 2007, 01:50 PM	#6
Adam Perry Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 77	I'll be interested to see what you think about 24p from this camera. I know (reference removed) said it was all but unusable.