Best workflow

[Morten Engelien]

Hi! I'm looking for the best workflow for PC! Can only find mac flows out there..
I'm using streamclip to convert the clips ready for Adobe premiere cs4.. But are not shure the codec is right ?
Is this a good way to start ? :
1: Mpeg streamclip-> export to quickTime-> and then... which compression is best ? H.264?

And when saving from premiere, what is best ?

[Mauricio DelaOrta]

Here's my recommended workflow (works for me at least)

1. Download your footage to your computer (as obvious as this sounds, I've seen people working from their CF cards). I like using Canon's utilities for this.

2. Transcode your footage. I normally use Cineform, but if you're on a budget, MPEGstreamclip + AvidDNXhd codec will work too (with less colorspace though)

3. If you're using Cineform, you can do a first color correction pass on First Light (this is especially usefull if you shot with contrast and saturation down on your camera)

4. Import clips into your NLE (I use Premiere CS4). Select the appropriate format (eg: 1080 24p) depending on how you intend to output.

5. Conform clips that aren't in your selected project format (eg: shots at 720 60p that you want to use for slomo)

6. Edit

7. Final color correction and effects.

8. Render to an output codec: h.264 is great if you have a powerful computer, otherwise HD Mpeg2 works better if you don't mind having a bigger sized file.

9. Have a cup of coffee while you wait for the render. :)

An important note: If you use MPEG2 when you transcode, your output to MPEG2 will be rendered faster. If I'm not wrong Avid's codec (which is free) uses mpeg2.

Hope this helps!

Mauricio

[Morten Engelien]

Works like a dream : )
Thank you, Mauricio!

[Jesse Haycraft]

Originally Posted by Mauricio DelaOrta

An important note: If you use MPEG2 when you transcode, your output to MPEG2 will be rendered faster. If I'm not wrong Avid's codec (which is free) uses mpeg2.

So do you think it's OK to use HD Mpeg-2 as a proxy?

[Mauricio DelaOrta]

Yes. I use mpeg2 for everything after capturing (which is done in h.264). Many people think mp2 is an old and outdated codec, but Sony uses it in its HDCAM format which is becoming an industry standard for HD footage exchange.

Cineform uses it as well. They claim that there is no visual loss in the compression, and so far I haven't noticed any.

I wouldn't be able to tell with Avid's codec as I haven't worked with it extensively but I'm guessing that Avid wouldn't release a codec under their brand if it wasn't a quality one.

For final output version of a project, I use standard High Def MPG2, which by the way is considered as one of the official codecs for Bluray

[Jon Fairhurst]

Cineform uses wavelets, rather than MPEG-2.

[Mauricio DelaOrta]

I thought I had read somewhere in Cineform's website that they were using some sort of mpeg, but then again, I've been using it -Aspect HD- since the first HDV camera came out (JVC GR-HD1U) so most surely the technology has evolved.

My point still remains regarding the workflow: Capture h.264 (no options here with the 7D) -> transcode (cineform works for me)-> do your art -> encode to mpeg2HD which is a standard embraced by many companies including the Blu Ray Association.

I've never had a problem opening these files on relatively modern computers, even without special codecs (clients usually have out of the box WMP and/or QT installations).

HDCAM-EX is Mpeg2 though and can be edited without a glitch on CS4 (again, on a relatively modern computer).

[Perrone Ford]

Cineform is using Wavelet compression.
Avid DNxHD is using DCT (Discrete Cosine Transform) same as ProRes and CanopusHQ
XDCam-EX/XDCam-HD are both Mpeg2 variants


I agree with your basic workflow except for the final encode to Mpeg2 HD. I can't think of a single scenario where that would be the ideal finishing format. Mpeg2 SD if going to DVD yes. But HD? No.

[Mauricio DelaOrta]

I guess it all depends on who your final audience is. For DVD of course, MPEG2 is the standard way of doing it.

Regarding HD, in my experience, not all customers' computers are able to handle 1080p h.264, so I usually offer them two versions, HD Mpeg2 being the other one. I'm usually told that they use the mpeg2 version for whatever purposes they have for their projects, and store the h.264 away.

What is your preferred output codec?

Mauricio

[Morten Engelien]

This workflow is perfect. No problems, no visible data loss and no delay when editing.

In the free Streamclip:
-Export to quicktime
- In compression,- use H.264 (I know this is not for editing, BUT it works MUCH better than DNxHD) For me and my computer, that is. And the DNxHD compression lose much data.
- Add in premiere.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Morten Engelien

- In compression,- use H.264 (I know this is not for editing, BUT it works MUCH better than DNxHD) For me and my computer, that is. And the DNxHD compression lose much data.

Then you are doing something VERY wrong. However DNxHD is slow in Premiere as is any .MOV. There are better options. Something in a .AVI container is preferred. H.264 is a horrible solution particularly sice the 7D is shooting that NATIVELY...

[Morten Engelien]

Yes, H.264 is problary not the best, but in this case,- it work better for me. Almost no delay in clips when I edit.




Large:
http://i46.tinypic.com/1e5gsl.jpg

And here is Perrone Fords solution with the DNxHD file :

" File, Export to Quicktime

Choose Avid DNxHD.

Click Options button

Color levels RGB

Click the tiny sliver of a box at the bottom of the window (this is a bug). It will allow you to select the bit rate for DNxHD. Select 1080/24p DNxHD 175 10-bit. Or select 1080/24p 115 8-bit. Experiment with both.

Hover over the Uncompressed selection and the OK button will appear. This is another bug. Click OK.

Set quality to 100%

Uncheck Interlaced Scaling

Select 1920x1080 unscaled

Click "Make Movie"
"

[Liam Hall]

Why are you transcoding to H264??????

It's already H264!

As for your split screen, you are just seeing a gamma shift, that's all.

[Craig Maret]

Theres some strange ways of working in this thread.

I would download from card and convert to an intermediate codec...like cineform with premiere because its easier to edit with and much more robust to grading etc.


The other codecs here are either meant for final delivery or capture and are what I would call "skinny" in that they will be great until you edit with them, then they will fall apart cos they were designed to fit in as small a file as possible whereas cineform(or similar) are bigger files but 10bit and 422 allowing grading etc with little degradation.

[Jad Meouchy]

I do a proxy cut with Sony Vegas using XDCAM EX as an intermediate. Because XDCAM EX plays back and edits smoothly on my $300 netbook!