Looks like I'm getting GH4 at DVinfo.net

Michael Thames · October 7th, 2014, 11:49 AM

After all my kicking and screaming about the GH4...... I'm leaning heavily towards buying one next week. I had my sights set on a C100, but now I'm having second thoughts.

I was primarily concerned about the basic look of the GH4 where everything was in focus and detailed, not a look I wanted after learning the ropes on my 5D3..... I need the Shallow DOF for most of what I do. Investigating the Metabones adopter has changed my mind towards the GH4, and now believe a SDOF is possible especially with my Canon lenses. Low light was another issue but again with some fast glass and the extra stop the Metabones gives you a super 35 sensor, I don't think it will be an issue for me.

I guess because I never really looked into the GH4, I never bothered to understand I didn't need to buy all new Panasonic glass which I know nothing about, and that changes everything.

I would never buy the interface because I never use XLR adopters, I use a Metric Halo external recording device, and don't like the power supply of that thing after using Jucied linked stuff that eats up batteries like there is no tomorrow.

So for $1700 plus $600 = $2300......... I'm in business! I save $2200 bucks rather than buying the C100.

I am mystified...... is there an SD card that delivers 200 Mbps? Or is that only possible with an external recorder?

Any reason I shouldn't get this thing? Anything I've over looked?

Ken Diewert · October 7th, 2014, 01:31 PM

Hey Michael,

I looked at both and ended up with the c100 / Ninja2 combo. I really was going to go GH4, but after using a 5D mk 2 for 5 years - I shelled out the few extra bucks and went with the Canon. I absolutely love my 5d and the shallow Dof look- enough so that I was willing to put up with all of the drawbacks, like no reliable on board audio, moire, and manual everything.

But I will rarely if ever shoot 4k. I have a friend with an Epic that I can use if a project calls for more pop than I have. I much rather care about dynamic range and low light/low noise. I shoot run and gun and might use bounce or a small fill.

I always looked at DSLR as a transitional phase... f-ing awesome for what they were, but really there has been enough development in traditional video systems now that we don't need to put up with the downsides... I will keep and shoot the 5D when it works, but I am stoked to have the c100 with the ease of use... buttons and dials that are easy to access, and very functional.. and on board audio.

You can't go wrong with the GH4. I'm sure that you've done all your homework (including a financial analysis - this is a big one). Make your decision, live with it, and do your thing. We are lucky to live in a time with so many great, affordable, creative tools.

Phil Goetz · October 7th, 2014, 03:41 PM

Operators standing by. INSTOCKNOW!

Panasonic DMC-GH4

We recommend the Delkin 600X 64GB cards. SDXC.

:)

Richard D. George · October 7th, 2014, 09:56 PM

What is the actual, exact crop factor (relative to full frame) for the GH4?

Richard D. George · October 7th, 2014, 10:09 PM

I will answer for you. I believe it to be about 2.3, which is why my collection of Canon glass will mostly not be particularly useful, regardless of the lens adapter.

For me (ymmv), a crop factor of 1.5 (for the Canon C100) is about the bare minimum for sensor size I would go and still consider using existing glass.

Of course, I could buy dedicated lenses for the smaller sensor size, but there is also the issue for me (again, ymmv) of weather resistance and the issue of my preference for Canon color.

I wish the C100 replacement was available, or at least announced.

Michael Thames · October 7th, 2014, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

Hey Michael,

I looked at both and ended up with the c100 / Ninja2 combo. I really was going to go GH4, but after using a 5D mk 2 for 5 years - I shelled out the few extra bucks and went with the Canon. I absolutely love my 5d and the shallow Dof look- enough so that I was willing to put up with all of the drawbacks, like no reliable on board audio, moire, and manual everything.

But I will rarely if ever shoot 4k. I have a friend with an Epic that I can use if a project calls for more pop than I have. I much rather care about dynamic range and low light/low noise. I shoot run and gun and might use bounce or a small fill.

I always looked at DSLR as a transitional phase... f-ing awesome for what they were, but really there has been enough development in traditional video systems now that we don't need to put up with the downsides... I will keep and shoot the 5D when it works, but I am stoked to have the c100 with the ease of use... buttons and dials that are easy to access, and very functional.. and on board audio.

You can't go wrong with the GH4. I'm sure that you've done all your homework (including a financial analysis - this is a big one). Make your decision, live with it, and do your thing. We are lucky to live in a time with so many great, affordable, creative tools.

Thanks Ken, you know how it is when you are camera hunting, I've spent months looking and dreaming about the C100.... I still am, the ergonomics of the C100 look phenomenal! I did look into a real video camcorder, but hard to do that after having inter-changeable lens. The C100 was the only video camera that interested me.

I've watched every GH4 verse the 5D3, C100 video there is, and don't always think the GH4 is the winner image wise...... what did it for me was the slow-mo, even though I never used slow-mo in my life, and the time lapse.

I love my 5D3 and will never sell it and think it's a great complementary camera to the GH4.

Michael Thames · October 7th, 2014, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard D. George

I will answer for you. I believe it to be about 2.3, which is why my collection of Canon glass will mostly not be particularly useful, regardless of the lens adapter.

For me (ymmv), a crop factor of 1.5 (for the Canon C100) is about the bare minimum for sensor size I would go and still consider using existing glass.

Of course, I could buy dedicated lenses for the smaller sensor size, but there is also the issue for me (again, ymmv) of weather resistance and the issue of my preference for Canon color.

I wish the C100 replacement was available, or at least announced.

So my Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS becomes a 50-142mm f2.0 on the GH4, with the speed booster?

Michael Thames · October 7th, 2014, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Goetz

Operators standing by. INSTOCKNOW!

Panasonic DMC-GH4

We recommend the Delkin 600X 64GB cards. SDXC.

:)

Thanks Phil...... free 2 day shipping?

Richard D. George · October 8th, 2014, 05:25 AM

Google this article:

B&H Photo Video - How to Emulate Super 35 4K video with Panasonic GH4

Look at the table at the bottom

Sigma 50 - 150 becomes a 82 - 245 (35mm equivalent) with 4H crop factor and Speedbooster
Nikon 35 becomes a 57 (35mm equivalent)
Tokina 11-16 becomes an 18 to 26 (35mm equivalent)

Michael Thames · October 8th, 2014, 08:48 AM

Thanks George, I mean Richard.....OK so my 50mm 1.4 becomes an f1.2 70mm...... I think I can live with that. I think then the lens I will use most is the 24-105 f4 for now, which becomes an f2.8..... sweet!

I hardly ever shoot anything wider than a 50mm on my 5D3 anyway.

Dave Partington · October 8th, 2014, 12:36 PM

I've shot full frame DSLR in the past, a lot.

I currently own the C100 AND the GH4.

Guess which one is actually getting the most use?

Answer: The GH4.

Why? And when do I choose the C100 over the GH4?

The thing I love about the GH4 is it's size, it's general ease of use, the articulating LCD and the fact that for general ambient audio the mics really aren't that bad (I wouldn't rely on them for primary sound). Oh, did I mention 4K and the ability to do 1080 in 60p & 96p for slo-mo, and the ability to do timelapse in-camera?

Hmmmm......

So when do I choose the C100?

• When I know I'm in a really high dynamic range situation, the C100 can capture those extra few highlights and shadows, but that's really not that often for me.

• When I need to run with a shotgun mic and perhaps a wireless lav and I don't want to be bothered by external recorders.

• When I know I need to record for more than 30 mins (a european limitation due to stupidly out of date tax
laws).

But wait, there's more....

While the C100 allows punch in to 2x for focus assist, often that's not enough for me to be sure I have absolute critical focus and I really miss the 5x and 10x from the 5D3. The GH4 allows much better punch in so I can focus more accurately, just like the DSLRs.

OTOH, I really miss the waveform monitors that the C100 has. The GH4 only has histogram.

I always record the C100 in dual card mode (for instant backup, even though I've never lost data from an SD card - yet), the GH4 only has a single card.

At the end of the day, if I could only buy one camera system which would it be? Hands down the GH4. OTOH, I probably wouldn't select the GH4 if I were limited to only using adapters and only manual focus (which to be fair I use much of the time). The native M43 glass, particularly the primes and 7-14 are amazing.

Shallow DOF? Sure I can get that from my Samyang 75 T1.4 with the EF adapter.... but quite often I actually wanted MORE DOF than I could get form a full frame DSLR, like looking at both the B+G from the front/side in the ceremony. The GH4 lets me do that too.

Jim Martin · October 8th, 2014, 04:40 PM

and we have the deal on the GH4 with the interface & the Metabones:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...ml#post1864180

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Richard D. George · October 9th, 2014, 05:38 AM

An interesting test, and overall comments, of the GH4 compared to the Canon C100 (and others) at the Hurlbut Visuals site posted September 11th. Very careful testing. Shane thought it was "video" looking, not cinematic, and had other drawbacks. He recommended renting one and doing tests for potential buyers.

Michael Thames · October 9th, 2014, 07:55 AM

Thanks for that Link Richard...... I read it with great interest! It pretty much confirms what my main hesitation with the GH4 is. I think I have been whittled down by all the over the top reviews of the GH4, mainly by amateurs who make some jingling change from video reviews and weddings, who in their knee jerk reactions to Canon declare they are unloading all their Canon gear...... I mean at least they should keep a 5D in their arsenal for low light, or shallow DOF stuff...... emotion usually trumps common sense, and rational thought

It's great to have a real professional film maker such as Shane weigh in on the - Elephant in the room - when it comes to the GH4 and that is, it's "broadcast like image"...... I always refer to it as a digitalized image, and not a cinema like image as on the 5D3 or the C100.

Since I'm going to be living with the decision I make for a number of years, saving some extra money isn't the main consideration. My intuition and heart tells me to go with the C100, like I had originally intended to do. When first looking at the GH4 footage I noticed right off the bat the digitalized image.... I'm not a professional at all but, it was quite obvious to my lying eyes what I was seeing.

The purpose of this thread was if there was anything I was overlooking in leaning towards the GH4, and Richard you have certainly called my attention to a few things....... I think I'm back in the C100 camp, but still remain open minded!

Noa Put · October 9th, 2014, 08:11 AM

Does it really matter what shane thinks about it? I often find it funny how easy people get influenced by what other people have to say and the more "important" they are, the more it must be true what they say. Cinematic is a overused word, just the word alone seems to make people think their work will be better. If you make crap films now on a iphone 5, you will make crap films on a red camera as well, but that Red does produce a cinematic image so it must be better, right? :)

October 7th, 2014, 11:49 AM	#1
Michael Thames Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM USA Posts: 396	Looks like I'm getting GH4 After all my kicking and screaming about the GH4...... I'm leaning heavily towards buying one next week. I had my sights set on a C100, but now I'm having second thoughts. I was primarily concerned about the basic look of the GH4 where everything was in focus and detailed, not a look I wanted after learning the ropes on my 5D3..... I need the Shallow DOF for most of what I do. Investigating the Metabones adopter has changed my mind towards the GH4, and now believe a SDOF is possible especially with my Canon lenses. Low light was another issue but again with some fast glass and the extra stop the Metabones gives you a super 35 sensor, I don't think it will be an issue for me. I guess because I never really looked into the GH4, I never bothered to understand I didn't need to buy all new Panasonic glass which I know nothing about, and that changes everything. I would never buy the interface because I never use XLR adopters, I use a Metric Halo external recording device, and don't like the power supply of that thing after using Jucied linked stuff that eats up batteries like there is no tomorrow. So for $1700 plus $600 = $2300......... I'm in business! I save $2200 bucks rather than buying the C100. I am mystified...... is there an SD card that delivers 200 Mbps? Or is that only possible with an external recorder? Any reason I shouldn't get this thing? Anything I've over looked?

October 7th, 2014, 01:31 PM	#2
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Hey Michael, I looked at both and ended up with the c100 / Ninja2 combo. I really was going to go GH4, but after using a 5D mk 2 for 5 years - I shelled out the few extra bucks and went with the Canon. I absolutely love my 5d and the shallow Dof look- enough so that I was willing to put up with all of the drawbacks, like no reliable on board audio, moire, and manual everything. But I will rarely if ever shoot 4k. I have a friend with an Epic that I can use if a project calls for more pop than I have. I much rather care about dynamic range and low light/low noise. I shoot run and gun and might use bounce or a small fill. I always looked at DSLR as a transitional phase... f-ing awesome for what they were, but really there has been enough development in traditional video systems now that we don't need to put up with the downsides... I will keep and shoot the 5D when it works, but I am stoked to have the c100 with the ease of use... buttons and dials that are easy to access, and very functional.. and on board audio. You can't go wrong with the GH4. I'm sure that you've done all your homework (including a financial analysis - this is a big one). Make your decision, live with it, and do your thing. We are lucky to live in a time with so many great, affordable, creative tools. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

October 7th, 2014, 03:41 PM	#3
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Operators standing by. INSTOCKNOW! Panasonic DMC-GH4 We recommend the Delkin 600X 64GB cards. SDXC. :)

October 7th, 2014, 09:56 PM	#4
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 What is the actual, exact crop factor (relative to full frame) for the GH4?

October 7th, 2014, 10:09 PM	#5
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 I will answer for you. I believe it to be about 2.3, which is why my collection of Canon glass will mostly not be particularly useful, regardless of the lens adapter. For me (ymmv), a crop factor of 1.5 (for the Canon C100) is about the bare minimum for sensor size I would go and still consider using existing glass. Of course, I could buy dedicated lenses for the smaller sensor size, but there is also the issue for me (again, ymmv) of weather resistance and the issue of my preference for Canon color. I wish the C100 replacement was available, or at least announced.

October 8th, 2014, 05:25 AM	#9
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Google this article: B&H Photo Video - How to Emulate Super 35 4K video with Panasonic GH4 Look at the table at the bottom Sigma 50 - 150 becomes a 82 - 245 (35mm equivalent) with 4H crop factor and Speedbooster Nikon 35 becomes a 57 (35mm equivalent) Tokina 11-16 becomes an 18 to 26 (35mm equivalent)

October 8th, 2014, 08:48 AM	#10
Michael Thames Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM USA Posts: 396	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Thanks George, I mean Richard.....OK so my 50mm 1.4 becomes an f1.2 70mm...... I think I can live with that. I think then the lens I will use most is the 24-105 f4 for now, which becomes an f2.8..... sweet! I hardly ever shoot anything wider than a 50mm on my 5D3 anyway. Last edited by Michael Thames; October 8th, 2014 at 06:38 PM.

October 8th, 2014, 12:36 PM	#11
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 I've shot full frame DSLR in the past, a lot. I currently own the C100 AND the GH4. Guess which one is actually getting the most use? Answer: The GH4. Why? And when do I choose the C100 over the GH4? The thing I love about the GH4 is it's size, it's general ease of use, the articulating LCD and the fact that for general ambient audio the mics really aren't that bad (I wouldn't rely on them for primary sound). Oh, did I mention 4K and the ability to do 1080 in 60p & 96p for slo-mo, and the ability to do timelapse in-camera? Hmmmm...... So when do I choose the C100? • When I know I'm in a really high dynamic range situation, the C100 can capture those extra few highlights and shadows, but that's really not that often for me. • When I need to run with a shotgun mic and perhaps a wireless lav and I don't want to be bothered by external recorders. • When I know I need to record for more than 30 mins (a european limitation due to stupidly out of date tax laws). But wait, there's more.... While the C100 allows punch in to 2x for focus assist, often that's not enough for me to be sure I have absolute critical focus and I really miss the 5x and 10x from the 5D3. The GH4 allows much better punch in so I can focus more accurately, just like the DSLRs. OTOH, I really miss the waveform monitors that the C100 has. The GH4 only has histogram. I always record the C100 in dual card mode (for instant backup, even though I've never lost data from an SD card - yet), the GH4 only has a single card. At the end of the day, if I could only buy one camera system which would it be? Hands down the GH4. OTOH, I probably wouldn't select the GH4 if I were limited to only using adapters and only manual focus (which to be fair I use much of the time). The native M43 glass, particularly the primes and 7-14 are amazing. Shallow DOF? Sure I can get that from my Samyang 75 T1.4 with the EF adapter.... but quite often I actually wanted MORE DOF than I could get form a full frame DSLR, like looking at both the B+G from the front/side in the ceremony. The GH4 lets me do that too. __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

October 8th, 2014, 04:40 PM	#12
Jim Martin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burbank, CA 91502 Posts: 949	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 and we have the deal on the GH4 with the interface & the Metabones: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...ml#post1864180 Jim Martin EVSonline.com

October 9th, 2014, 05:38 AM	#13
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 An interesting test, and overall comments, of the GH4 compared to the Canon C100 (and others) at the Hurlbut Visuals site posted September 11th. Very careful testing. Shane thought it was "video" looking, not cinematic, and had other drawbacks. He recommended renting one and doing tests for potential buyers.

October 9th, 2014, 07:55 AM	#14
Michael Thames Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM USA Posts: 396	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Thanks for that Link Richard...... I read it with great interest! It pretty much confirms what my main hesitation with the GH4 is. I think I have been whittled down by all the over the top reviews of the GH4, mainly by amateurs who make some jingling change from video reviews and weddings, who in their knee jerk reactions to Canon declare they are unloading all their Canon gear...... I mean at least they should keep a 5D in their arsenal for low light, or shallow DOF stuff...... emotion usually trumps common sense, and rational thought It's great to have a real professional film maker such as Shane weigh in on the - Elephant in the room - when it comes to the GH4 and that is, it's "broadcast like image"...... I always refer to it as a digitalized image, and not a cinema like image as on the 5D3 or the C100. Since I'm going to be living with the decision I make for a number of years, saving some extra money isn't the main consideration. My intuition and heart tells me to go with the C100, like I had originally intended to do. When first looking at the GH4 footage I noticed right off the bat the digitalized image.... I'm not a professional at all but, it was quite obvious to my lying eyes what I was seeing. The purpose of this thread was if there was anything I was overlooking in leaning towards the GH4, and Richard you have certainly called my attention to a few things....... I think I'm back in the C100 camp, but still remain open minded!

October 9th, 2014, 08:11 AM	#15
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Looks like I'm getting GH4 Does it really matter what shane thinks about it? I often find it funny how easy people get influenced by what other people have to say and the more "important" they are, the more it must be true what they say. Cinematic is a overused word, just the word alone seems to make people think their work will be better. If you make crap films now on a iphone 5, you will make crap films on a red camera as well, but that Red does produce a cinematic image so it must be better, right? :)