C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability at DVinfo.net

Al Bergstein · August 20th, 2013, 08:55 PM

Today I had to shoot interviews out in bright sunlight. I once again setup WideDR, and for one of my interviews had a white reflector filling in, and for the two others, had a 1x1 Litepanels fill, and the third (with the purple tshirt) had the white board shielding the sun and fill with a 1x1 Litepanels.

I have to say, that I've not been disappointed with using the Wide DR on these outdoor shots (of which i do lots). I'm really amazed at the latitude I'm getting from this setting on the C100, much more like what I expect from the xf300 shooting 4:2:2. Plus I'm getting beautiful DOF.

These are all stills off the footage, and not color corrected at all.

Anyway, these are exactly what I would expect out of the C100. Good stuff for a small company like mine, where two crew are a major shoot.

Omar Nabulsi · August 27th, 2013, 12:06 AM

Thanks for the post! Do you prefer Wide DR over C-log?

Al Bergstein · August 27th, 2013, 03:09 AM

For this kind of shooting yes. C is a bit hard to judge in camera for fast setup and shooting. For theatrical,and lots care in post coloring,then I would likely shift to it.

John Yasunaga · September 2nd, 2013, 04:55 PM

What ISO do you use when shooting in WideDR? There seems to be varying opinions on whether 850 is base ISO for only Canon Log or does it also apply to using WideDR. Thanks.

Al Bergstein · September 2nd, 2013, 11:12 PM

I've not been disappointed in 850 yet, though I've not done great tests at other ISOs.

Pavel Sedlak · September 3rd, 2013, 12:23 AM

Yes, iso850 is for the best dynamic range only with Canon log gamma.

If you use this iso for wdr gamma when shot scene with good light, you only made noise more visible (you set gain from -6dB to +2.5dB).

You can test this with WF monitor - set exposure (of the CMOS chip) with iris (shutter speed or ND filter) to be ok (without clipping), with iso850 and canon-log gamma, then change iso to 320 and gamma to wdr. And look at your WF monitor for clipping in luma. Change iso with wdr to 850 and you will see clipping - but this is an amplifier (ISO/GAIN) clipping, this is not clipping from the chip. That is all.

(( If you want, with the same exposure and lightning try to change iso again to 850 and canon-log gamma. And set iso to 640 (or 320) and try to open iris now to see a clipping - you will see clipping on WF monitor (with canon log gamma) at a different level of signal modulation - 80pct e.g. - iso in this case change only a modulation level, with canon-log gamma and iso 850 amplifier let you to get the full 100pct of signal modulation. ))

Matt Davis · September 4th, 2013, 09:29 AM

Just to jump in with a little 'BTW'...

WDR has sharpening/detail enhancement applied. C-Log does not.

If you're to shoot with WDR, it may be very beneficial to make a version of WDR that doesn't have sharpening/detail wound up - especially if you're in a controlled lighting environment (where WDR beats C-Log) in a chromakey studio (chromakey hates sharpening).

I fell foul of this as I had a CP on a card for WDR, and in an urgent situation (late to studio) used the camera's default WDR not my corrected WDR, and now have to eat into my key to remove the telltale black outline.

WDR is great, but be aware of the little things Canon added to make the picture look even better. Sharpening is far better done in post if you have the time. LOL

Pavel Sedlak · September 4th, 2013, 12:05 PM

WDR has a lot of noise at 50i and 4000iso, look at crop pictures from wdr vs. cine1 testing (tiff + jpeg versions). I used wdr only to iso1250 (or 2000).

Sharpening of wdr gamma is from the CP?

Matt Davis · September 4th, 2013, 12:21 PM

Yes, so you have to 'write-unprotect' it, lower the sharpening, resave it, reapply write protect (if you wish).

But your example is another lovely display of things to watch out for. Around 20-30 IRE? Looks a bit less...

Pavel Sedlak · September 4th, 2013, 12:36 PM

I am editing now, so I don't have time to look to another project to WF for IRE level, but it was a dark afternoon (and small windows at a room .-) ), some correct scene for iso4000 testing (50i).

My WDR CP is built from a clear preset, so it has sharpness -3, coring 0, no noise reduction, it's the same sharpnees setting as has the second cine1 CP.

For cine1 I use normal4 color matrix and I change a color saturation level (color gain). It has better colors for me.

August 20th, 2013, 08:55 PM	#1
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability Today I had to shoot interviews out in bright sunlight. I once again setup WideDR, and for one of my interviews had a white reflector filling in, and for the two others, had a 1x1 Litepanels fill, and the third (with the purple tshirt) had the white board shielding the sun and fill with a 1x1 Litepanels. I have to say, that I've not been disappointed with using the Wide DR on these outdoor shots (of which i do lots). I'm really amazed at the latitude I'm getting from this setting on the C100, much more like what I expect from the xf300 shooting 4:2:2. Plus I'm getting beautiful DOF. These are all stills off the footage, and not color corrected at all. Anyway, these are exactly what I would expect out of the C100. Good stuff for a small company like mine, where two crew are a major shoot. Attached Thumbnails

August 27th, 2013, 12:06 AM	#2
Omar Nabulsi Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 74	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability Thanks for the post! Do you prefer Wide DR over C-log?

August 27th, 2013, 03:09 AM	#3
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability For this kind of shooting yes. C is a bit hard to judge in camera for fast setup and shooting. For theatrical,and lots care in post coloring,then I would likely shift to it.

September 2nd, 2013, 04:55 PM	#4
John Yasunaga Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Honolulu, USA Posts: 4	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability What ISO do you use when shooting in WideDR? There seems to be varying opinions on whether 850 is base ISO for only Canon Log or does it also apply to using WideDR. Thanks.

September 2nd, 2013, 11:12 PM	#5
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability I've not been disappointed in 850 yet, though I've not done great tests at other ISOs.

September 3rd, 2013, 12:23 AM	#6
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability Yes, iso850 is for the best dynamic range only with Canon log gamma. If you use this iso for wdr gamma when shot scene with good light, you only made noise more visible (you set gain from -6dB to +2.5dB). You can test this with WF monitor - set exposure (of the CMOS chip) with iris (shutter speed or ND filter) to be ok (without clipping), with iso850 and canon-log gamma, then change iso to 320 and gamma to wdr. And look at your WF monitor for clipping in luma. Change iso with wdr to 850 and you will see clipping - but this is an amplifier (ISO/GAIN) clipping, this is not clipping from the chip. That is all. (( If you want, with the same exposure and lightning try to change iso again to 850 and canon-log gamma. And set iso to 640 (or 320) and try to open iris now to see a clipping - you will see clipping on WF monitor (with canon log gamma) at a different level of signal modulation - 80pct e.g. - iso in this case change only a modulation level, with canon-log gamma and iso 850 amplifier let you to get the full 100pct of signal modulation. ))

September 4th, 2013, 09:29 AM	#7
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability Just to jump in with a little 'BTW'... WDR has sharpening/detail enhancement applied. C-Log does not. If you're to shoot with WDR, it may be very beneficial to make a version of WDR that doesn't have sharpening/detail wound up - especially if you're in a controlled lighting environment (where WDR beats C-Log) in a chromakey studio (chromakey hates sharpening). I fell foul of this as I had a CP on a card for WDR, and in an urgent situation (late to studio) used the camera's default WDR not my corrected WDR, and now have to eat into my key to remove the telltale black outline. WDR is great, but be aware of the little things Canon added to make the picture look even better. Sharpening is far better done in post if you have the time. LOL __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

September 4th, 2013, 12:05 PM	#8
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability WDR has a lot of noise at 50i and 4000iso, look at crop pictures from wdr vs. cine1 testing (tiff + jpeg versions). I used wdr only to iso1250 (or 2000). Sharpening of wdr gamma is from the CP? Attached Thumbnails

September 4th, 2013, 12:21 PM	#9
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability Yes, so you have to 'write-unprotect' it, lower the sharpening, resave it, reapply write protect (if you wish). But your example is another lovely display of things to watch out for. Around 20-30 IRE? Looks a bit less... __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

September 4th, 2013, 12:36 PM	#10
Pavel Sedlak Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Prague Czech Republic Posts: 263	Re: C100: Wide DR: Always amazed at it's ability I am editing now, so I don't have time to look to another project to WF for IRE level, but it was a dark afternoon (and small windows at a room .-) ), some correct scene for iso4000 testing (50i). My WDR CP is built from a clear preset, so it has sharpness -3, coring 0, no noise reduction, it's the same sharpnees setting as has the second cine1 CP. For cine1 I use normal4 color matrix and I change a color saturation level (color gain). It has better colors for me.