Is the GH1 a really serious contender for a video camera? I know that the large sensor size should be good for low light and shallow DOF, but I believe it lacks focus aids, zebra stripes, scopes, XLR inputs and I am sure there are other things. Is this more of a camera that you use in addition to your “real video camera” ? I am about ready to buy the HMC-150 for my instructional videos, should I wait for the GH1 for it’s larger sensor?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Any tool can be used for "serious" purposes by a professional. What matters is how the tool is used. That said, name another camcorder under $3000 that can match the GH1's image quality. On top of that, you also get manual controls. So it should be "serious" enough for most prosumers. HD camcorders over $1000 may have more useful videography features like the ones that you mentioned, but none of them can be had for less than $2K or $3K. You can easily deal with the lack of those features, anyway.

i wouldn't mess around with Olympus unless you were into manipulating the image.

for instructional videos you will find that the 150 has powerful features like XLR and more depth of field which won't get you into focus trouble

i wouldn't mess around with Olympus unless you were into manipulating the image.

for instructional videos you will find that the 150 has powerful features like XLR and more depth of field which won't get you into focus trouble
You can get a Beachtek XLR adapter for around $200. The kit lens also has outstanding autofocus, which helps eliminate the "focus trouble." Most people agree that shallow DOF for color cinematography/videography is almost always better-looking than deep DOF. The GH1 offers control over DOF, while regular camcorders force you to have deep DOF. All of the manual controls that are offered on the GH1 (i.e. everything available in still mode) are as serious as it gets. The only major weakness of the video from the GH1 is the codec.

Most people agree that shallow DOF for color cinematography/videography is almost always better-looking than deep DOF. .

Not really true, though people that own small chip video cameras often say that. I'm not sure when and where shallow dof became the holy grail for prosumers.

Not really true, though people that own small chip video cameras often say that. I'm not sure when and where shallow dof became the holy grail for prosumers.
Why did deep-focus cinematography go out of style after the 1950s? There are numerous reasons, but one of them is because of the rise of color cinematography. The truth is that deep-focus cinematography doesn't work very well with color because there's too much information assaulting the eyes when nearly everything is in focus. All of the colors of all of the different objects compete for the viewer's attention.

Take a poll. Ask cinephiles, photographers, and regular people. (Avoid filmmakers and videographers, since they're likely to be biased.) Show them two images. They should be exactly the same, except that one has shallow DOF, and the other has deep DOF. Which do they prefer? I have a feeling that the majority will go with the one with shallow DOF. There are many reasons, other than what I stated in the first paragraph, for why shallow DOF is aesthetically preferable in the majority of situations.

Here goes another dof debate. :) I must say that in certain environments, I still prefer large dof on small chip cameras. And believe me, I'm a shallow dof addict at this point. Here are examples of when I appreciate small chip sensor cameras.

1) Live events in clubs, bands, music videos - I want focus, and I want it fast, in low light. I already battle with focus on the far end of telephoto at shows, and if you're not totally on it, you lose a lot of potential shots. For music videos shot in live environments, I'd say its smart to have some smaller chip cameras, as well as these bigger chipped ones.

2) Corporate and training video - I want quick, small setups for interviews, b-roll, product shots for training, etc, with minimal light rigging and the least amount of haggling with focus. The customer/client/stakeholder for these jobs/projects care more about the job getting done fast and looking crisp.

3) Documentary, news, reality, lifestyle, journalism work - again, I think the last thing I'd want to deal with is shallow dof. The exception to this would be a film/cinema style documentary. I actually have a preference for greater dof on all of the above, and if you watch a lot of this on TV, you'll see constant examples of this, although a lot of it is shot on 2/3 chip cameras (if you can afford it - Scarlet 2/3rds?)

So with that, for training videos? I'd say get the HMC-150 unless you have some really artsy requirements and vision for your training videos, and can deal with the hassles of focusing, OR, you have enough control over your lighting to get whatever DOF you want. And don't forget pro audio - I'd be pretty nervous relying on the GH1 for that. We know the 5DMkII is horrible to deal with in that regard.

-steev

Steve I think I probably agree with you on all those points. But for cinema style of shooting I think Fei Meng is correct.

Steve I think I probably agree with you on all those points. But for cinema style of shooting I think Fei Meng is correct.

I agree, as a cinematic tool, at this point, without question I'd get the GH1. But Scott's initial question mentioned training video, and big flags went up in my mind.

I think one of the bigger questions I'd have concerns the audio. Does anyone know if you can monitor the audio with headphones on the GH1? Does it give you audio level visual metering? Can you turn off AGC?

1.When using the stock lens, the camera has focus tracking, single focus and face recognition early report said that it is very good, hope they are right and this problem is solve.
2.Low light is said to be even better than EX1 with the stock lens, and the stock lens is slow, F4-5.6, and so if you get a faster lens like someting around F 1.6 or so, low light should be great, so this problem is also solve.
3.for outdoor shot, you should have no problem getting great dof, indoor need fast lens so you can use smaller apperture, picture quality is close to the red from early report, so for $1500.00 I think it is a steal, I will get one for sure.

I agree, as a cinematic tool, at this point, without question I'd get the GH1. But Scott's initial question mentioned training video, and big flags went up in my mind.

I think one of the bigger questions I'd have concerns the audio. Does anyone know if you can monitor the audio with headphones on the GH1? Does it give you audio level visual metering? Can you turn off AGC?

You can not monitor the audio, but Beachtek make a XLR adapter for the Canon 5D than constantly put out a inaudioble 20Khz signal to defeat the AGC, and it has headphone and meter so you can monitor it there, hopefully the cable will work because the HG1 use a different type.

You can not monitor the audio, but Beachtek make a XLR adapter for the Canon 5D than constantly put out a inaudioble 20Khz signal to defeat the AGC, and it has headphone and meter so you can monitor it there, hopefully the cable will work because the HG1 use a different type.

So I assume that means no audio level meters either? Big risk there, but I assume you can do thorough testing with an audio interface (beachtek, mixer), and establish where the levels are and how to avoid distortion. I'd be comfortable with being able to record a test, and confirm playback for each take.

I wonder if you could take the A/V cable and send audio to a mixer for playback (since it sounds like it won't pass audio live).

That would work fine using a mixer with switchable tape monitoring:

PSC | DV PROMIX 3 - Field Mixer | FPSCDVMIX3 | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300798-REG/PSC_FPSCDVMIX3_DV_PROMIX_3_.html)

Just switch it over to the GH1 a/v out after takes to confirm?

-steev

It looks like I am going with the HMC-150. Its additional features will just make it quicker and easier to work with. At some point I would like to get a GH1 for more creative and low light stuff. The GH1 would probably wind up costing more than the 150 because the kit lens is too slow so I would get a lens adapter for Olympus lenses and the fast Olympus lenses are good but expensive. I know I could get a few prime lenses cheaper but they require more time and effort. Add a Beachtek XLR adapter (assuming that they will make one) and the cost goes up even more.

So I assume that means no audio level meters either? Big risk there, but I assume you can do thorough testing with an audio interface (beachtek, mixer), and establish where the levels are and how to avoid distortion.

Why not just use a portable audio recorder and use dual-system sound? Use the GH-1 audio as a synch track in post. I can't imagine the audio would be that great on a DSLR camera anyway.

Why not just use a portable audio recorder and use dual-system sound? Use the GH-1 audio as a synch track in post. I can't imagine the audio would be that great on a DSLR camera anyway.

Yes, I think that's the superior way to do it. However, your production process has just taken a leap complexity-wise. When I think of the logistics involved with daily grind project work, I'd never want to do dual system sound. So, to that end, I'd say a "serious video camera" should be able to do single system sound recording and monitoring.

I guess we can say the GH1 is potentially a serious "digital cinema" camera?

It looks like I am going with the HMC-150.

Excellent choice!!

Excellent choice!!

I want 'em both!

It really chaps me that I have to choose between the two. I mostly do documentary work, so a long DoF camera will be fine, but I really do like the look of shallow DoF cameras.

The idea, I think, was that I was going to buy the Lumix GH1 and work with Shallow DoF so that I could use it in narrative shorts (specifically comedy shorts) and wedding videos (where I could, you know, actually make some money back to pay for it - and use a Canon HG20 as my long DoF camera for my documentary projects until I saved up for the HMC150.

The one thing that really, really chaps my hide is that the GH1 has auto audio gain. I have a Juicedlink XLR adapter/mixer. The fact that you can't turn it off means that I'm going to have to record dual audio, and I really don't want to have to sync in post. It just makes everything much more complicated.

Still, I'm thinking that alot of people want the Shallow DoF look, and I'd be more likely to get $1500 of work out of the GH1 faster than I would get $3500 worth of work out of the HMC150.

Although maybe I'm wrong on this.

I have a day job so I'd be solely a nights and weekends videographer - maybe it's impossible to recoup the costs with either of them on my schedule...

I find when doing documentary shooting that I am usually looking at two setups. I am often RnG on sticks, monopod, or handheld, but then having to do a 2nd setup for controlled posed interviews. I want a second cam ready to go for that, perhaps even setup in anticipation of interviews, and I plan to try the GH1 for that purpose. I think a shallow DOF in a nice setting for intimate interviewing can work well and bring up the production value.

Since it's been awhile on the subject, and we've now moved on to the GH2 and such, has there been any new developments in the portable audio recorder arena?

I purchased my GH1 a year ago and I love it. But whenever I want good audio, I bring my Sony V1U, and take audio from a mic into one of my XLR ports, as well as use it as a B cam. But it may be time to finally purchase a recorder so my GH1 can be a totally stand alone camera. That's why I'm curious.

Josh, I don't know about portable recording units, I haven't looked at them for awhile. But the new Videomic Pro is pretty good, I love mine. It has a -10 db setting and +10 and +20db settings that are very handy. There is an audio forum here also you might check also for some good feedback. They talk about recorders a lot there.

Since it's been awhile on the subject, and we've now moved on to the GH2 and such, has there been any new developments in the portable audio recorder arena?

I purchased my GH1 a year ago and I love it. But whenever I want good audio, I bring my Sony V1U, and take audio from a mic into one of my XLR ports, as well as use it as a B cam. But it may be time to finally purchase a recorder so my GH1 can be a totally stand alone camera. That's why I'm curious.

For $300 the Tascam DR100 will give some great sound. The Zoom h4n is similarly priced but lacks some of the Tascam's features.
Syncing is easy. I also love redundancy in video production -- and a separate deck accomplishes that.

That definitely looks like a good general mic, but I'm looking for something with XLR inputs so I can connect any mics I want (like wireless lavs and such).

Oh, sorry, misunderstood. Yes, check the audio forum for sure!

@Jeff, no worries, I wasn't very specfic either.

@Brian: The Tascam looks like it might be the right piece of machinery I've been looking for.

Since it's been awhile on the subject, and we've now moved on to the GH2 and such, has there been any new developments in the portable audio recorder arena?

I purchased my GH1 a year ago and I love it. But whenever I want good audio, I bring my Sony V1U, and take audio from a mic into one of my XLR ports, as well as use it as a B cam. But it may be time to finally purchase a recorder so my GH1 can be a totally stand alone camera. That's why I'm curious.

.

@Brian: The Tascam looks like it might be the right piece of machinery I've been looking for.

One feature of the Tascam that I like, and it's embarrassing to admit, but it's got an idiot light the glows red if you clip. If you have the misfortune of operating camera and audio, this can really help because although double system sound is awesome and gives much better results than in camera, it *is* another ball in the air. That red light, on a critical audio recording can help a not so great multi tasker like myself.

Josh, I looked at the Tascam thanks to Brian's tip. Looks very good. One or two reviewers at b&h mentioned something about being dissatisfied when using phantom powered mics. You might look into that if that is your plan.

Good to know. I'll look a little closer before I decide. Thanks for passing on the info!

Nice unit for sure.

just pick up a tascam dr-680. nothing out there is even close at the moment.

@Aaron: As much as I'd love to have dr-680, the DR-100 is so much more affordable (with the budget I have), that I'm going to go with it most likely (as long as the phantom power stuff isn't an issue). Thanks for the heads up though.