DV-L Sat, 3 Feb 2001 Volume 1 : Number 755
In this issue:
RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Premiere 6.0 PAL DV Users: Please Read
RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Where to buy royatly free music?
external firewire drive
Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
FCP anomalies
Mondodoggie
Re: FCP anomalies
Sony in-out
Re: Recording the Sun with a camcorder?
Re: Where to buy royatly free music?
Generic capture board
RE: DV Storm
RE: 16:9 Anamorphic Lens for PD150
SV: Sony in-out
Re: Sony in-out
RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Re: external firewire drive
Re: ripping DVDs
RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Re: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Re: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Re: Anyone using Premiere 6 on a Pizmo PB?
RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
cut to the gimmicks
RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Re: FCP anomalies
What realtime can/can't do?
RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
XL1 time lapse, DVD screen capture
Re: B&W vs color viewfinders
Re: cut to the gimmicks
RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Re: cut to the gimmicks
Re: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Re: Sony in-out
Re: Generic capture board
Re: ripping DVDs
RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Re: Generic capture board
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: ripping DVDs
RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Re: Generic capture board
Re: What realtime can/can't do?
Re: Editing Etiquette
Re: What realtime can/can't do?
Re: Editing Etiquette
Re: Generic capture board
RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Re: Generic capture board
Re: Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
Re: Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
Premiere 6.0 and Title Deko
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: Premiere 6.0 and Title Deko
Re: ripping DVDs
DV-L News of the Day
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: DV-L News of the Day
Re: cut to the gimmicks
RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: ripping DVDs
RE: cut to the gimmicks
RE: cut to the gimmicks
Re: ripping DVDs
Praise the effects (Cuts are BORING!)
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: ripping DVDs
Re: ripping DVDs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 02:30:45 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Message-ID: <7745253013AE.AAA5ED4@mail1.21stcentury.net>
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi wes chow, you wrote on 2/1/2001 8:31:46 PM:
> I think effects have their place. Transitions are a different matter
> entirely. Maybe they'd work in certain contexts... like, they'd be
> perfectly at home in, say... a cheesy home wedding video or a demo
> for hair care products. I can't think of much use for them,
> otherwise.
>
>I admit, in my mind i kind of group effects and transitions together,
>which is probably not the correct way of thinking about it, and so my
>arguments are a little kooky.
Think about it however you like. I think of transitions as one teensy
element within the infinitely wide "effects spectrum".
One that could very easily be done away with.
> I think I'd just like effects to be used differently... less as
> little
> minute long celebrations of tech and more as treatments that flavor
> the whole work.
>
>yes, I totally agree. But in a post that you haven't received quite
>yet, I argue that possibly these "minute long celebrations of tech"
>might mean something else in a context that you might not be accustomed
>to. Afterall, simple cuts themselves were "celebrations of tech" that
>later turned out to have immense theoretical importance.
We'll assume that post is theoretical as well.
Simple cuts are a necessary part of assembling ones footage
into a coherent story.
Making your picture morph into an entire color cycling alien
civilization that drags your second clip onto the screen
while evolving, conquering other civilizations, harnessing
the power of the sun and staging a blugrass revival is hardly
necessary to the process of assembling your clips into a
coherent story.
It might, on the other hand, make for a fine break in ones
boy scout video memoirs.
On that questionable other hand... making lens flares chase
cars down the street or getting some guys head to explode
might, possibly, aid in getting one's message across.
...Especially when there'e no alien civilizations in there
messing up those nice clean cuts.
{But... this runneth into the ground. My apologies.}
> Maybe they work better in the original trilogy... To tell you the
> truth... I really didn't notice them. {evidence they may have
> "worked"}
>
> Apart from, maybe, a nod to sci fi of the past... In the last thing
> they didn't work at all. They were really at odds with the rest of
> the imagery.
>
>I wholeheartedly agree... there were so many things wrong with the last
>Star Wars. The biggest was George Lucas. Don't get me started.
Ok.
--
http://www.freespeech.org/apophysis/
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:20:29 -0800
From: "Mike Jennings"
To: DV-L
Subject: Premiere 6.0 PAL DV Users: Please Read
Message-ID:
PAL Premiere 6 users--
We are narrowing in on a timeline playback problem with Premiere's
built-in OHCI DV support.
It occurs in Windows PAL projects with clips bearing certain
characteristics. It's manifested by dropped frames only during
timeline playback and video export; in the Source Monitor or Clip
Window, it's fine.
The update can be downloaded from:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/prwin.htm
This update is not intended to address any other timeline playback
issues. Since there are so many possible causes for playback
performance problems, a call to Tech Support is your best bet; email
lists and Web boards are not always the most efficient way to resolve
these issues.
--Mike Jennings
--Premiere Development Team
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:25:53 -0000
From: "Perry"
To: "DV-L"
Subject: RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID: <000b01c08cfa$24b79ea0$0f2dc22b@compaq>
Nice start Jan!
Let's get one thing out of the way, Kevin is confusing lines and line pairs.
DV can resolve 720 lines which is the way some folks measure video. Line
pairs are used by printers and photographers.
However, I have a few instant comments:
1)Jan mentions a sampling frequency of 18MHz. There are two completely
separate sample frequencies, that (effectively) of the CCD and that of the
subsequent DSP chain, I assume she means the DSP frequency. To give
information content input to 18MHz sampling requires a minimum of 960
samples per line but as Jan alludes to in her post, this ignores the effect
of the optical anti-alias filters. If you really wanted to see 960 lines AND
get some effective ant-aliasing then you would need a lot more samples. 960
CCD pixels probably get you about 800 lines GROSS(with good anti-aliasing).
2)Jan glosses over the most important part of all in terms of accepted
broadcast measurement, which is the translation between the optical chart
and the sampling. As I had understood it, the 4:3 charts are calibrated for
equivalence to vertical resolution. This means that the 800 line grating
actually has 800 lines placed in 75% of the picture width, or has 1067 lines
in the total width. For a camera to state that it has 800 lines resolution,
allowing for anti-aliasing, would need around 1200 pixels! The situation for
16:9 is even worse and the numbers would be increased by 1.3.
3)The manufacturers like to strip off all the normal processing for
specification measurements because it gives the best (artificial)
signal/noise numbers. Most factors like gamma and detail add noise, and the
coring functions used to hide noise will also hide the extreme tail end of
resolution measurements. If they want to play these games they should state
clearly on the specifications: "made in a completely non operational
condition, and not available on any external connector".
4)Jan makes a fundamental mistake in her analysis: accepting that the detail
processing is removed for testing gives a better signal/noise measurement,
restoring it doesn't give a better resolution! This is because they are
measuring EXTINCTION FREQUENCY. Detail enhancement can only boost what is
already there and anyway is normally done at just below or just above video
cut-off (or both) of about 5 MHz for NTSC or about 6MHz for PAL. It can make
no improvement to resolution as measured here, and may well make it worse.
5)Using CCD pixel offset is indeed a way of getting more resolution, but it
is only applicable to white/grey objects and has some fundamental problems
with anti-aliasing. Jan doesn't say that her cameras use it I notice!
6)I think Jan has proven what those of us in the business have always known,
and what she herself admits: there is a big gap between what a real engineer
measures and what Marketing pretend they measure!
Perry Mitchell
Video Facilities
http://www.perrybits.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:14:08 -0800
From: Lori & David Tango
To:
Subject: Where to buy royatly free music?
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010202014523.00adf970@mail.flashcom.net>
At 12:28 AM 02/02/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Where to buy royatly free music?
I was just faced with this problem, having completed my new Streaming Epic,
MONDO DOGGIE http://randomfilm.com/mondodoggie
I wanted to use :40 of Lene Lovitch for the closing credits, but Time
Warner quickly shot down that idea. So I used Copernic
http://www.copernic.com to do a full search for "Royalty Free Music," and
came up with two places where I ordered CD collections by mail for under
$60 each.
But, impetuous webperson that I am, I decided not to wait for the CD's and
wound up doing an instant download with my VISA card from
http://www.stock-music.com/ It was expensive -- $40 for one tune -- and I
shan't do this often, but it solved my problem in a flash. When you think
of all the time and money I have put into making these streams...well, I am
glad I finished the project without delay and, in a pinch, would definitely
use this method again.
I have Sonic Forge and another mixer program called Becker Data and
frankly, it would have taken me hours to come up with anything half as good
as what I downloaded in an instant with my VISA. It's all a matter of time
vs. money. When the stock CD's arrive from the other sources I am hoping
they will have something usable for new projects...can let the list know
what I think of the quality when I get them, should anyone have the interest.
To hear what I downloaded go to http://randomfilm.com/mondodoggie and click
the last stream for "Credits."
-David Tango
http://randomfilm.com
P.S. To think that I started 3 years ago collecting all these free midi
files which have now pretty much disappeared from the web. I am just
having fun, but I want to stay legal...you never know who is watching.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:03:06 +0700
From: David Teitelbaum
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: external firewire drive
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010202105911.00b279f0@campsci.com>
Can someone recommend an external firewire drive that would be good (great)
for doing video work? I'm not sure what size yet so just a brand name will do.
I use a viao F290 notebook.
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:25:02 +0100
From: Cedric Tineo
To: "DV L dvcentral.org"
Subject: Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
Message-ID:
I have read somewhere that DVCPRO tape have a much longer expected life than
Dv or Dvcam tapes, because of some lubrication inside the tape ? Is this
true ? How many years can I expect from dv/dvcam/dvcpro before I will loose
data.
Are there precautions to observe for a better conservation (humidity,
temperature) ?
Anyone can enlighten us ?
Cedric Tineo
STEP Productions - Switzerland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:50:17 -0400
From: "Banyan"
To:
Subject: FCP anomalies
Message-ID: <00af01c08d0e$50b6f500$8f8803c4@lairdmurphy>
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Has anyone observed the following anomalies in FCP and if so do they =
have any idea how they may be remedied if at all?
1. When a camera or player is not attached by firewire to FCP clips =
exhibit a strange split screen in the interface (left half of the screen =
is drastically colour shifted and distorted) in pause and even renders =
like that.
2. Sometimes, pausing video causes the picture to look like the pedestal =
(or set up) has dropped and appears abnormally dark. Plays properly but =
goes dark again when paused.
Christopher Laird
Banyan
3 Adam Smith Square
Woodbrook
Port of Spain
Trinidad & Tobago
The Caribbean
Tel: (868) 623 9756
Fax: (868) 627 6808
www.pancaribbean.com/banyan
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Has anyone observed the following anomalies in FCP = and if so=20 do they have any idea how they may be remedied if at all?
1. When a camera or player is not attached by = firewire to FCP=20 clips exhibit a strange split screen in the interface (left half of the = screen=20 is drastically colour shifted and distorted) in pause and even renders = like=20 that.
2. Sometimes, pausing video causes the picture to = look like=20 the pedestal (or set up) has dropped and appears abnormally dark. = Plays=20 properly but goes dark again when paused.
Christopher Laird
Banyan
3 Adam Smith=20 Square
Woodbrook
Port of Spain
Trinidad & Tobago
The=20 Caribbean
Tel: (868) 623 9756
Fax: (868) 627 6808
www.pancaribbean.com/banyan
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:00:59 +0900
From: jhogg
To:
Subject: Mondodoggie
Message-ID: <200102021200.VAA03793@apm01.m2.ocv.ne.jp>
David saw your Mondodoggie clips. The fight scene is fun in brother's
revenge. Which codec did you use for compressing the quicktime clips?
Also as for legal music, have you check out smartsound cds? You can get a
lot of music on each CD and with the software it is very easy to make
music tracks that are exact in length, ie. 23 seconds, 1 min 17 sec. It
doesn't matter and smartsound makes the tracks instantly.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:03:58 +0900
From: jhogg
To:
Subject: Re: FCP anomalies
Message-ID: <200102021203.VAA04065@apm01.m2.ocv.ne.jp>
>Has anyone observed the following anomalies in FCP and if so do they have
>any idea how they may be remedied if at all?
>
>1. When a camera or player is not attached by firewire to FCP clips
>exhibit a strange split screen in the interface (left half of the screen
>is drastically colour shifted and distorted) in pause and even renders
>like that.
>
>2. Sometimes, pausing video causes the picture to look like the pedestal
>(or set up) has dropped and appears abnormally dark. Plays properly but
>goes dark again when paused.
>
>Christopher Laird
What is your computer configuration? OS version, FCP, QT versions, ect.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:19:28 +0100
From: Robert Rouveroy
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Sony in-out
Message-ID:
Anybody in Europe know how to create DV in to a Sony DCR TRV 120E?
--
Robert Rouveroy csc
The Hague, Holland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:05:07 +0100
From: Robert Rouveroy
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Recording the Sun with a camcorder?
Message-ID:
At 6:49 PM -0700 2/1/01, Jason Bushmire wrote:
>I own an XL-1, and I wanted to do that same thing, but I remember
>seeing somewhere that pointing your camera directly at the sun would
>burn out pixels in your CCDs.
>
>True, false?
========
Early morning sun is ok, otherwise use an ND filter.
--
Robert Rouveroy csc
The Hague, Holland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:35:00 +0100
From: Robert Rouveroy
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Where to buy royatly free music?
Message-ID:
Did enjoy your effort very much--but how come the Quicktime version
was so much choppier than the Real one?
--
Robert Rouveroy csc
The Hague, Holland
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:35:58 EST
From: Jmendza440@cs.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Generic capture board
Message-ID:
Does anybody know any generic capture board for a digital 8 that can can
output to VHS tape and also digital movie using premiere other than the DV
500,RT 2000 or the REX?
Thanks:)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:19:11 -0500
From: "Christopher Van Nest"
To:
Subject: RE: DV Storm
Message-ID:
Jon & Walt,
Thanks for the info! For the types of things I currently do-- multiple =
titles, bugs, color correction-- the Storm, even on a moderate dual =
PIII, sounds pretty good.
Thanks,
Christopher
____________________________
Host/Producer FREESPORT-TV
http://www.freesport-tv.com/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Burkhart [mailto:burkhart@maui.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:39 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Re: DV Storm
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Christopher Van Nest wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > Just wondering how your dual PIII 500's are doing with the=20
> DVStorm. I currently have a DVRaptor with a single PIII450 in a=20
> Dell 220 workstation, but I purchased the 220 with dual-processor=20
> support with the idea of upgrading later. Right now, I'm thinking=20
> about getting two new processors (500-700 range?) and upgrading=20
> to the DVStorm, and was wondering how satisfied you've been with=20
> it's performance and your setup.
>=20
> Hi Chris,
>=20
> The DVStorm has been doing very well with my dual PIII 500s. Far=20
> better than I expected. I also was not sure how the IBM 5400 rpm=20
> IDE drives were going to do. They have performed flawlessly. I=20
> recently changed from NT 4 to Win2K without any big problems.
>=20
> I think a dual setup in the 500-700 range would do nicely.
>=20
> I'm just now finishing up a 10 minute video with LOTS of color=20
> correction, and sharp filters engaged on the same clip along with=20
> a title line or two and some dissolves between scenes and it's=20
> all running in realtime just fine. Oh yeah, I've done several=20
> Picture In Picture effects that are running realtime as well.
>=20
> Hope this helps.
>=20
> Aloha,
> Jon Burkhart
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:17:15 +0200
From: "Charles Maxwell"
To:
Cc: "DV-L"
Subject: RE: 16:9 Anamorphic Lens for PD150
Message-ID: <004501c08d22$f2b7a520$7bca07c4@undervid>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Thanks Tyler
A professional camera like the Sony DSR500 is not necessarily out of my =
budget but then I need to get a big and cumbersome underwater housing =
that is also expensive. Secondly I already have the PD150 that is a =
great camera. However, I agree with you that a camera with 16:9 CCD's =
would be the best quality option. The conversion lens is a compromise. =
Also by 2002 or 2003 HD will probably be required for big budget TV so I =
must start saving now!!
With best wishes from
Charles Maxwell
Underwater Cameraman (film, video and stills)
Professional Diving Supervisor
Image Library
Underwater Video Services
P O Box 30318
Tokai 7966
Cape Town, South Africa
Tel: + 27-21-794-3595
Fax: + 27-21-794-5449
Mobile: + 27-82-568-8347
Website: www.underwatervideo.co.za
Local Time: GMT + 2 hours
Our computer is protected by Norton AntiVirus 2000.
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Thanks Tyler
A professional camera like the Sony DSR500 is = not=20 necessarily out of my budget but then I need to get a big and=20 cumbersome underwater housing that is also expensive. Secondly I = already=20 have the PD150 that is a great camera. However, I agree with you that a = camera=20 with 16:9 CCD's would be the best quality option. The conversion lens is = a=20 compromise. Also by 2002 or 2003 HD will probably be = required for big=20 budget TV so I must start saving now!!
With best wishes from
Charles = Maxwell
Underwater=20 Cameraman (film, video and stills)
Professional Diving = Supervisor
Image=20 Library
Underwater Video Services
P O Box = 30318
Tokai=20 7966
Cape Town, South Africa
Tel: +=20 27-21-794-3595
Fax: +=20 27-21-794-5449
Mobile: +=20 27-82-568-8347
Website: www.underwatervideo.co.zaLocal=20 Time: GMT + 2 hours
Our computer is protected by Norton AntiVirus=20 2000.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:52:26 +0100
From: "LRTV"
To:
Subject: SV: Sony in-out
Message-ID:
Hi Robert,
www.datavision.co.uk does have Digi8-Widget for DV-in
on most (all?) Digital8 cameras.
Cheers,
Robert Lindqvist
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:02:53 +0200 (EET)
From: Priit Varik
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Sony in-out
> Anybody in Europe know how to create
> DV in to a Sony DCR TRV 120E?
Sure, the software RM-95 emulator with interface cable schematics are avail=
able=0Aat:
http://perso.libertysurf.fr/dvin/
And the guy who knows the codes lives in Chech republic:
http://ns.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/
For TRV120 you'll have to follow the link 'Newly added CODEs for new Sony=
=0AD8'
Priit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:22:25 -0800 (PST)
From: wes chow
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Message-ID: <20010202152225.8662.qmail@web1102.mail.yahoo.com>
> Simple cuts are a necessary part of assembling ones footage
> into a coherent story.
I completely disagree here. I can take one long, continuous shot of,
say, a musical with a camcorder set up at the back of the room. I'd
find it hard to believe that because there are no cuts, this is not a
"coherent story." What about Timecode? It's claim to fame was that it
was filmed with 4 camcorders simultaneously, no editing, no cuts. It's
pretty coherent as well.
I assume that I'm bastardizing what you really meant here... I think
the key word of your sentence is really "assembling", since that
implies that you start off without any long shots. What *really* is
the origin of this? Some of the earliest earliest earliest films were
nothing but a single take of something like a guy riding around on a
bicycle. But the fact that film had a practical length (that you
couldn't film action indefinitely) meant that shots *had* to be
combined. This is a purely technical aspect of film! It's
juxtaposition of two possibly unrelated shots to create new meaning,
which is (in my opinion) a totally unobvious, but amazing result of
Russian film theory. This was thought of as a novelty in the olden
days... just like fancier and fancier effects or transitions.
Again, I'm going to state my point clearly: we are accustomed to
"classic" cuts and dissolves, but there is this new generation of
moviegoers that is growing up with more. We take for granted cuts and
dissolves, when in reality they may be just as much novelty as fancy
effects and transitions.
Wes
__________________________________________________
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a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:26:22 -0800 (PST)
From: wes chow
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Message-ID: <20010202152622.21734.qmail@web1101.mail.yahoo.com>
to tell you the truth, I don't have any experience with professional
videography... I've seen very few corporate videos, and so I really
don't know how saturated they get with FX. It's a sad, sad day when
quatlity gets equated with number of visual gadgets....
Wes
--- Randy Quimpo wrote:
> Funny? Its darned surreal - when I joined these fellows almost two
> years
> ago, I said to myself "how much sophistication does a garment company
> need
> out of a video anyway?", and cuts and dissolves (with the occasional
> page
> turn and AfterFX) were fine. Today, I have to produce work that
> impresses
> some of the most jaded clients in the business. It seems like
> everyone has
> seen the flying logos, fancy station IDs, animated graphs, etc...and
> expect
> it out of their in-house video team. I have a war chest that allows
> me to
> buy all the toys (RexM1, Raptor, VAIO, etc, the staff, and we do all
> the
> tricks - and for a garment company?!?! Jeez, one of my guys just did
> a
> frame-by-frame retouch of a Chinese sewer to erase some detail that
> our
> management found objectionable...which tells me that my team is now
> entering
> the realm of the absurd. This year I plan to do crane shots,
> steadycam, and
> aerial shots, having done all the post tricks already. I can't wait
> till the
> fashion changes and we go back to cuts and dissolves!
>
> regards
>
> Randy "Lets fix it in post but will you shoot it right next time?"
> Quimpo
__________________________________________________
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:06:24 -0800 (PST)
From: wes chow
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Message-ID: <20010202160624.8914.qmail@web1104.mail.yahoo.com>
so here's a question I may have alluded to earlier:
how much do you think video technology has or will change film
language?
As an example, there's the trailer for Blow, which can be found at
http://www.movie-list.com/b/blow.shtml
About 34 seconds in, there's this one sequence that's in triple split
screen showing a brooding johnny depp in the middle with all the mayhem
he's been involved with in the side panels. I like it a lot. I think
it's pretty. And more effective than using, say, a flashback.
I assume that something like this would have been near, if not
completely impossible to cut on film. Thus, it couldn't have entered
film language until the advent of video editing...
can anybody think of other examples?
Wes
__________________________________________________
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:28:43 -0800
From: "Wes Lazara"
To:
Subject: Re: external firewire drive
Message-ID: <002901c08d35$35389e60$360c10ac@SCHWABFOUNDATION.ORG>
the maxtor 40 gig 1394 drive works fine for me.
Wes
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Teitelbaum"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:03 PM
Subject: external firewire drive
> Can someone recommend an external firewire drive that would be good
(great)
> for doing video work? I'm not sure what size yet so just a brand name will
do.
>
> I use a viao F290 notebook.
>
> David
>
>
> ---(cut off when replying)-------------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:31:01 -0600
From: Thomas Giebink
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202103034.02e91980@127.0.0.1>
--=====================_52563036==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 10:43 PM 2/1/01, you wrote:
>A simple piece of software removes Macrovision, making the output recordable
>by anything.
yes.... and.... ? macrovision.com?
tom
--=====================_52563036==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:43 PM 2/1/01, you wrote:
A simple piece of software removes Macrovision, making the output recordable
by anything.
yes.... and.... ? macrovision.com?
tom
--=====================_52563036==_.ALT--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:41:12 -0500
From: "Gary Bettan, The Electronic Mailbox"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202113958.00a81820@pop3.concentric.net>
Today we received our first shipment of RT2000 w/ Premiere 6!!!
Matrox is the first company to deliver a real-time capture card w/ Premiere
6 certification and P6 in the box.
Great job Matrox!
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
The Desk Top Video Handbook On Line http://www.videoguys.com
All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:09:40 -1000
From: Jon Burkhart
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm (cuts only doctrine questioned)
Message-ID: <3A7AE9D4.FF88CC48@maui.net>
Randy Quimpo wrote:
> Funny? Its darned surreal - when I joined these fellows almost two years
> ago, I said to myself "how much sophistication does a garment company need
> out of a video anyway?", and cuts and dissolves (with the occasional page
> turn and AfterFX) were fine. Today, I have to produce work that impresses
> some of the most jaded clients in the business. It seems like everyone has
> seen the flying logos, fancy station IDs, animated graphs, etc...and expect
> it out of their in-house video team. I have a war chest that allows me to
> buy all the toys (RexM1, Raptor, VAIO, etc, the staff, and we do all the
> tricks - and for a garment company?!?! Jeez, one of my guys just did a
> frame-by-frame retouch of a Chinese sewer to erase some detail that our
> management found objectionable...which tells me that my team is now entering
> the realm of the absurd. This year I plan to do crane shots, steadycam, and
> aerial shots, having done all the post tricks already. I can't wait till the
> fashion changes and we go back to cuts and dissolves!
>
True the fashion in editing will change but it doesn't diminish the value of the production work you do just because "it's for a garment company". That's the beauty of today's DV
technology. It makes possible quality video production possible even for small companies and individuals to tell their story.
In my career I never worried about weather my television audience consisted of one person or the entire world (it's been both ways) I always tried to tell the story the best I could. Now
you have the tools in your hands. We're all visual story tellers. How well can you tell the story?
Sure, sometimes I get in Lightwave and After Effects and get twenty or thirty layers going that almost sucks my eyeballs out, but sometimes that what it takes. Other times it's lingering
on the last scene as the music finishes so we hear only and distant sound as we slowly fade to black.
Tell your story well.
Aloha,
Jon Burkhart
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:09:57 -0800
From: "Dick Lague"
To:
Subject: Re: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <004b01c08d3a$f86d34e0$0400a8c0@charterpipeline.com>
So that the DV-500 owners and prospects don't feel left out, Pinnacle will
upgrade your 5.1c to 6.0 [check pinnaclesys.com for dates] the drivers on
their site work very well. Our DV-500 is running 6.0 and Win 2000 great and
pumping out the product.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Bettan, The Electronic Mailbox
To:
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
> Today we received our first shipment of RT2000 w/ Premiere 6!!!
>
> Matrox is the first company to deliver a real-time capture card w/
Premiere
> 6 certification and P6 in the box.
> Great job Matrox!
>
> Gary
>
> The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
> We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
>
> The Desk Top Video Handbook On Line http://www.videoguys.com
>
> All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
> assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
>
>
> ---(cut off when replying)-------------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> ---------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:29:36 -0500
From: "Gary Bettan, The Electronic Mailbox"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202122901.00b3c520@pop3.concentric.net>
At 09:09 AM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
>So that the DV-500 owners and prospects don't feel left out, Pinnacle will
>upgrade your 5.1c to 6.0 [check pinnaclesys.com for dates] the drivers on
>their site work very well. Our DV-500 is running 6.0 and Win 2000 great and
>pumping out the product.
100% correct. And we'll have Premiere 6 in the Pinnacle stuff real soon as
well.
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
The Desk Top Video Handbook On Line http://www.videoguys.com
All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:36:50 -0800
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID:
At 11:28 PM -0500 2/1/01, Crittenden, Jan wrote:
>The reality is that while
>yes we are recording in the digital domain, we are in deed producing an
>analog signal because the monitor display is analog. The 720 X 480 pixel
>map is what derives the sampling frequency but the signal is not limited to
>360 on/off lines. If you were here in LA I would be more than happy to sho=
w
>you the playback off of the recording of the multiburst chart.
Can you mail me a DV frame as a .dv file or QT movie to look at?
> As I said in
>my previous post resolution is about sampling frequency, not the bit map.
>Yes when you are producing graphics for the computer you are working at 720
>X 480 but the energies that are producing the video signals are not off and
>on. Video does not work that way.
I know that (I used to be a BBC video engineer) but I never saw a
good definition of the 'lines' that are used - can you point me at
one?
Defining things in terms of frequencies makes sense when the entire
signal chain is analog; these days most of the signal chain is
digital, from the CCD to the tape format to the SDI distribution,
through MPEG-2 satellite uplinks . If the final product is on DVD or
digital cable, the only time it becomes analog is when it hits the
viewers TV set, and not even then if they are using a computer or LCD
screen to view the DVD.
>
>I will work again with the engineers that surround me to see if there is
>some way to simplify this but DV does indeed have at least 480 lines
>displayed on any analog monitor I have ever seen. It is not hand waving, i=
t
>is science and engineering.
Please send me a DV frame (or post it on a website) so I can see what
these lines look like. 1.5 pixel spaced lines are going to be aliased
or full of moir=E9.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:42:32 -0800
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Anyone using Premiere 6 on a Pizmo PB?
Message-ID:
At 8:32 PM -0800 2/1/01, Dan wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm having an unusual delay when capturing DV on my Pizmo Powerbook
>G3/400. Before each clip is captured, there is a lengthy 30+ second
>delay.
This is a problem with the disk drivers and file system. Before
recording, QT preallocates the whole drive so that you don't drop
frames when the file system allocates a new block in the middle.
With a large drive or a fragmented one, this can take a very long
time with that OS version. The problem is fixed in Mac OS 9.1
Recording to a freshly erased drive is a workaround if you don't want
to upgrade. Reducing the maximum record time also shortens the
preallocation time (not sure if Premiere lets you set this as a
user). This didn't show upp before because of the previous 2GB file
system limit that meant each recording block was limited to 2 GB.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:31:01 -0000
From: "Perry"
To: "DV-L"
Subject: RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID: <002101c08d46$4b2336c0$0f2dc22b@compaq>
Kevin posted:
>Defining things in terms of frequencies makes sense when the entire
signal chain is analog; these days most of the signal chain is
digital, from the CCD to the tape format to the SDI distribution,
through MPEG-2 satellite uplinks . If the final product is on DVD or
digital cable, the only time it becomes analog is when it hits the
viewers TV set, and not even then if they are using a computer or LCD
screen to view the DVD.<
But the two most important parts are still analog Kevin, the CCD sensor and
the display device. Even an LCD display uses an analog modulation, and I
don't know of any current device that uses digital brightness modulation.
Perry Mitchell
Video Facilities
http://www.perrybits.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:45:28
From: "John Hartney"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID:
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:11:39 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: DV Editing (was DV Storm)
Agreed... they look amateurish as hell and tasteless to boot. Look
at what they did to the last Star Wars thing. Gorgeous footage,
beautifully put together and you've got lousy wipes cutting it
into bits.
Dontcha' wish Lucas was in here to explain that one=3F
If you can't get it with a straight cut... your footage is screwed
and it's time to re-shoot.
********
Well, my thought is Lucas edits to his audience. Kids like flash and they
don't see things like any other age group. My nine year old son was
watching the 3rd star wars a while ago and there was a scene where the heros
were outside some schmaltzy fortress and to get to the inside shot Lucas
used a hard edged clock wipe.....
Looked terrible to me, but it works, obviously, for his main audience. In a
creative sense, it is like writing. What are you trying to say and to whom?
Do we dangle a participle or throw a booger?
Best,
John Hartney
Fox Valley DV
847.608.1357
****************
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:18:52 -0500
From: jmerser@concentric.net
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID:
--============_-1230980956==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>6)I think Jan has proven what those of us in the business have always known,
>and what she herself admits: there is a big gap between what a real engineer
>measures and what Marketing pretend they measure!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sure, but what no customer wants to admit to,
and every manufacturer knows,
is that if you tell the whole truth and include
all the minuses along with the pluses, customers will _focus_ on
the minuses. Especially when the competition has no similar ethics
to hinder their marketing strategies.
The customer thinks, "Wow, product A is pretty cool, but
they admit that it has a few problems. That's not good.
Product B made by Company B seems almost as cool,
but doesn't have ANY issues. Just look at all
the good things they say it'll do. I'll buy B."
Conclusion:
Company A is run by honest idiots and will be soon be gone,
because they told the whole truth.
Company B made a sale, because they didn't.
Result: It doesn't pay to be 100% honest
It is any wonder that from advertising to politics to law to
medicine that we considered "the mushroom people"?
As long as we're kept in the dark and fed a lot of sterilized crap,
there'll be a nice harvest to be made from us, because
that's the way we prefer it.
j 'I gotta go and take my pill now' merser
--============_-1230980956==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
<
>6)I think Jan has proven what those of us in the business have always
known,
>and what she herself admits: there is a big gap between what a real
engineer
>measures and what Marketing pretend they measure!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sure, but what no customer wants to admit to,
and every manufacturer knows,
is that if you tell the whole truth and include
all the minuses along with the pluses, customers will _focus_ on
the minuses. Especially when the competition has no similar ethics
to hinder their marketing strategies.
The customer thinks, "Wow, product A is pretty cool, but
they admit that it has a few problems. That's not good.
Product B made by Company B seems almost as cool,
but doesn't have ANY issues. Just look at all
the good things they say it'll do. I'll buy B."
Conclusion:
Company A is run by honest idiots and will be soon be gone,
because they told the whole truth.
Company B made a sale, because they didn't.
Result: It doesn't pay to be 100% honest
It is any wonder that from advertising to politics to law to
medicine that we considered "the mushroom people"?
As long as we're kept in the dark and fed a lot of sterilized crap,
there'll be a nice harvest to be made from us, because
that's the way we prefer it.
j 'I gotta go and take my pill now' merser
--============_-1230980956==_ma============--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:26:32 -0500
From: "Stephen van Vuuren"
To:
Subject: RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <002b01c08d4e$0c8ff3a0$4423a8c0@dell420me>
Gary:
Have you got the VU Meter in Premiere 6 working with the RT2000?
stephen
www.xiveren.com
"It's only after you've lost everything
that you're free to do anything."
~Tyler~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:26:23 -0400
From: "Banyan"
To:
Subject: Re: FCP anomalies
Message-ID: <00f601c08d4e$07d5ee00$8f8803c4@lairdmurphy>
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhogg"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: FCP anomalies
> >Has anyone observed the following anomalies in FCP and if so do they have
> >any idea how they may be remedied if at all?
> >
> >1. When a camera or player is not attached by firewire to FCP clips
> >exhibit a strange split screen in the interface (left half of the screen
> >is drastically colour shifted and distorted) in pause and even renders
> >like that.
> >
> >2. Sometimes, pausing video causes the picture to look like the pedestal
> >(or set up) has dropped and appears abnormally dark. Plays properly but
> >goes dark again when paused.
> >
> >Christopher Laird
>
> What is your computer configuration? OS version, FCP, QT versions, ect.
>
OS 9
FCP 1.2.5
Qt 4.1.2
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:06:58 -0200
From: Roberto Tietzmann
To:
Subject: What realtime can/can't do?
Message-ID:
Hello, all!
Sorry if this is an old topic, but I am a newbie to the realtime hardware
field.
Recently, I got a client whose demands included a lot of titling and
subtitling in various videos. My trusty blue G3 + FCP is VERY slow to handle
this, due to recompression times. So I ask you:
-Are RT boards capable of overlaying titles in realtime?
-Are the coming realtime boards for Mac OS (Matrox, Promax) able to do this?
-If so, when are they coming out? As well as FCP-RT too.
Thanks for all,
Roberto
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:03:56 -0800
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: FW: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID:
At 6:31 pm +0000 2/2/01, Perry wrote:
>
>But the two most important parts are still analog Kevin, the CCD sensor and
>the display device. Even an LCD display uses an analog modulation, and I
>don't know of any current device that uses digital brightness modulation.
Not in the sense we are discussing here. Each CCD element is a little
bucket that has hard edges and counts photons. Each LCD element is 3
little coloured rectangles with variable polarisers on top. They
output and input analog voltages for each element, but the elements
have hard edges.
When your input device is an electron gun sweeping across a surface
then it doesn't make sense to talk about pixels. When it is a CCD it
does. How many CCD elements across do the cameras in question use?.
Does the camera convert their digital signals into analog and then
sample the analog one to derive the DV bitstream?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 22:19:46 +0100
From: peter de vries
To:
Subject: XL1 time lapse, DVD screen capture
Message-ID:
I'm sure you could connect your XL-1 to a Mac or pc with Prremiere
installed, which will allow you to do this, I haven't used the buggy program
for a while, but I remember you can set it up to capture a frame when you
press a keyboard key, or at designated intervals. So a Powerbook with your
XL-1 and Premiere should do the job.
Talking about DVD macrovision, command, shift 4 does not work for capturing
a screenshot of a DVD, you'll need DVDExtractor 0.9b and MacMPEG2Decoder,
more info at http://www.go4host.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi and
http://pluto.beseen.com/boardroom/s/50561/
peter
>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:13 EST
> From: SOMAFILMS@aol.com
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: XL1 time lapse ?
> Message-ID:
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows how to do time lapse photography with the
> Canon XL-1.
>
> thank you and may god bless dv central
>
> Fred
> SOMAFILMS
> San Francisco
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:26:19 -0500
From: "RGBaker"
To: "DV List"
Subject: Re: B&W vs color viewfinders
Message-ID: <005101c08d5e$c9767600$e9e9fea9@chaos>
Another PD150 audio feature -- very important, seldom mentioned, IMHO -- is the
ability to switch the on-camera mic to one channel & plug a second mic into another.
Every Betacam shoot I've ever worked has assumed this low-level security, and in the
event that the talent mic fails or suffers some sort of interference, or the
off-camera ask really needs to be heard, or room tone can't be found on channel one
because someone breathed too noisily ... you can look to the camera mic for an
option.
The PD150 offers a professional level input in more than just XLR connectors: The
ability to direct the on-camera mic to one or both channels is a security feature I
hated to be without when I used the VX1000.
Cheers,
GB
(aside to Perry -- there is no way that an audio facility in North America would be
called a record shop -- that's what old guys like me call HMV & Towers, just like a
book shop, cheese shop, et cetera ...)
RGBaker
256BoltonSt.Ottawa.ON.Canada
613.852.3833
gb@bakerfilms.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:41:53 -0800 (PST)
From: wes chow
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID: <20010202214153.5193.qmail@web1102.mail.yahoo.com>
I could be wrong, but I don't think that Lucas originally intended the
Star Wars trilogy to have the cultural and mythological importance that
Joseph Campbell later bestowed on his work. I thought that Lucas meant
Star Wars to be pure entertainment... *pulp* fiction if you will. This
wholly justifies using cheesy wipes and the such.
But then again, I was barely born when the Empire Strikes Back came
out...
Wes
> Well, my thought is Lucas edits to his audience. Kids like flash and
> they
> don't see things like any other age group. My nine year old son was
> watching the 3rd star wars a while ago and there was a scene where
> the heros
> were outside some schmaltzy fortress and to get to the inside shot
> Lucas
> used a hard edged clock wipe.....
__________________________________________________
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:35:00 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Message-ID: <7745253DD62.AAA1AB3@mail1.21stcentury.net>
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Hi wes chow, you wrote on 2/2/2001 7:22:25 AM:
> Simple cuts are a necessary part of assembling ones footage
> into a coherent story.
>
>I assume that I'm bastardizing what you really meant here... I think
>the key word of your sentence is really "assembling", since that
>implies that you start off without any long shots. What *really* is
Now *that's* bastardization.
>the origin of this=3F Some of the earliest earliest earliest films were
>nothing but a single take of something like a guy riding around on a
>bicycle. But the fact that film had a practical length (that you
>couldn't film action indefinitely) meant that shots *had* to be
>combined. This is a purely technical aspect of film! It's
>juxtaposition of two possibly unrelated shots to create new meaning,
>which is (in my opinion) a totally unobvious, but amazing result of
>Russian film theory. This was thought of as a novelty in the olden
>days... just like fancier and fancier effects or transitions.
No cuts is about as simple as it gets, no=3F The point was that
if one needs to assemble two bits of footage that one need not
celebrate it.
Despite what would seem to be an impending digital video doom.
>Again, I'm going to state my point clearly: we are accustomed to
>"classic" cuts and dissolves, but there is this new generation of
>moviegoers that is growing up with more. We take for granted cuts and
>dissolves, when in reality they may be just as much novelty as fancy
>effects and transitions.
I think you're clutching at straws, just a bit, to make that point.
There's no reason to assume that a generation of moviergoers is
brainless simply because they're new. If new styles come from new
tech it's not going to come from pre-packaged fades and swirls
and blurs.
--
http://www.freespeech.org/apophysis/
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:01:39 -0500
From: "Gary Bettan, The Electronic Mailbox"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202170100.00d6c1f0@pop3.concentric.net>
At 01:41 PM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I thought that Lucas meant
>Star Wars to be pure entertainment... *pulp* fiction if you will.
I've heard him refer to it as a "Serial Western set in space".
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
The Desk Top Video Handbook On Line http://www.videoguys.com
All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:08:17 -0500
From: DPalomaki
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Resolution - Engineering vs. Marketing
Message-ID: <3A7B2FD1.39520F62@cox.rr.com>
> Eh? DV has 720 horizontal pixels. Even if you ignore the DCT
> compression, you can't get more than 360 lines because of the Nyquist
> limit you mentioned earlier./
Because TV resolution lines are counted differently - it is based
on a square image area and a line-space pair counts as two
lines. Thus 720 pixels allows 720 lines. Mush this to a square
format (3/4) and you get 540 lines. Allow for some over scan and
you get down to around 500 lines horizontal resolution. Its all
a hold over from the days of analog and B&W. Shadow masks and
color tubes do make it interesting.
Any marketing type worth his salt can take a relatively simple
engineering concept and turn it into new-speak worthy of a
Washington politician.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:15:09 +0100
From: "Gustaaf"
To:
Subject: Re: Sony in-out
Message-ID: <002201c08d65$9b285960$e17fadc1@kinder>
You might also want to check http://lea.hamradio.si/~s51kq/DV-IN.HTM.
Just last week I used the link Priit described (libertysurf) to make the
interface cable and took the codes from the linke above as generic Sony
codes didn't work for my Sony TRV8E. In fact I managed to block my whole
camera, and had to do some strange things to make it work again, but now
dvin is permanently freed and I don't need the cable anymore as Premiere
starts the recording on my cam. I used the dvin.exe from -liberty- to change
the codes. Btw the costs of making the cable were about Fl 9,- the same
cable incl softeware is Fl 150,- at the Mediamarkt! Not talking about a
handheld dvin-widget; fl 300,-... I found all this out due to a message on
this list some weeks ago, I don't recall from whom, but it was a great tip,
as so many on this wonderful list. It generates a lot of messages and most
of them way beyond my homestuff doings as a video newby but after lurking a
few month's now I sometimes can understand a whole sentence :-) Thanks all
of you, I hope to payback somtime.
Greetings,
Gustaaf,
Rotterdam
----- Original Message -----
From: Priit Varik
To:
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Sony in-out
> Anybody in Europe know how to create
> DV in to a Sony DCR TRV 120E?
Sure, the software RM-95 emulator with interface cable schematics are
available
at:
http://perso.libertysurf.fr/dvin/
And the guy who knows the codes lives in Chech republic:
http://ns.sps.volyne.cz/set1394/
For TRV120 you'll have to follow the link 'Newly added CODEs for new Sony
D8'
Priit
---(cut off when replying)-------------------
This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
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---------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:16:39 EST
From: MQSowder@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
Message-ID:
In a message dated 2/2/01 7:36:42 AM Central Standard Time, Jmendza440@cs.com
writes:
<< Does anybody know any generic capture board for a digital 8 that can can
output to VHS tape and also digital movie using premiere other than the DV
500,RT 2000 or the REX?
Thanks:) >>
Depends on your budget. I have a DC10+ for my home. Pictures are good but I
capture at the highest possible rate with a fast hard drive. Card runs about
$100 and has S-Video and composite in and output. Audio is handle by your pc
sound card. There are products that are under the price range of the RT2000.
Check out Videoguys.com. You will need a decently fast hard drive to capture
with (assuming you don't like dropped frames, of course). I am considering
the DV500 but I consider that my longshot card. If you don't need a
powerhouse though. Go with the DC10+. Not bad. you have to shut practically
every program on your pc to run it. The edit software is easy and if you
don't go overboard on the effects, your render times are very reasonable.
Good luck,
Matt Sowder
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:21:10 -0500
From: "bullardc"
To:
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <000f01c08d7f$ba6ad360$9a14850a@bh>
and that software is what, decks??
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:30:54 -0800 (PST)
From: wes chow
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Message-ID: <20010202223054.24690.qmail@web1101.mail.yahoo.com>
> There's no reason to assume that a generation of moviergoers is
> brainless simply because they're new. If new styles come from new
> tech it's not going to come from pre-packaged fades and swirls
> and blurs.
oh, whoops... that's not what I meant at all. My point is that it's no
good to be "cuts and dissolves only" sort of people if it's because of
a strict adherence to what might possibly be outdated principles. Of
course nobody is going to admit that "outdate principles" is the reason
why they try to stick to only cuts and dissolves... and yet, before my
post, not a single person made an argument in favor of fancy
transitions...
Wes
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:38:41 -0500
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
Message-ID: <20010202173333.5587.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:16:39 EST, MQSowder@aol.com jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> powerhouse though. Go with the DC10+. Not bad. you have to shut practically
> every program on your pc to run it.
That's actually a function of your capture software more than the card.
I have a DC10+ in my Win98 PC (800MHz Athlon) and capture using
VirtualDub's capture mode. You can't interact with other apps during
capture. But the other day, I had one VirtualDub frameserver feeding a
TMPGenc MPEG-2 encoding at the same time I captured from the DC10+, and
not a frame was dropped (well, almost none -- VirtualDub with audio-sync
enabled will drop or double the occasional frame, to keep video in lock
step with audio).
> The edit software is easy and if you
> don't go overboard on the effects, your render times are very reasonable.
I gather it's fairly decent basic editing software. Given that you can
pay the same price for software-only from MGI or Ulead, for the basic
editing application, you can't really go wrong here. But I use more
advanced tools, and the DC10+ cooperates with those, too.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology | http://www.metabox.de
dhaynie@jersey.net | Met@box AG | http://www.metaboxusa.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:17:28 -0500
From: "bullardc"
To:
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <00e601c08d87$97aef1a0$9a14850a@bh>
Sorry, my spellchecker made my acronym into a word. Message should have read
"and that software is what, deccs?
----- Original Message -----
> and that software is what, decks??
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:40:21 -0600
From: Thomas Giebink
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202173747.028287c0@127.0.0.1>
--=====================_11199259==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
acutally.. all you have to do it route analog video from the DVD player
(Hollywood PLus in my case) to RT2000... then take the video OUT of the
RT2k.. to ANY recording device (your DV deck /camcorder for instance)...
all the copy protection is stripped by that loop thru.... simple and it
works beautifully.. of course you could capture it and convert it to MPEG4
to and write that to a CD-R to archive it.. works very nicely
tom
At 04:21 PM 2/2/01, you wrote:
>and that software is what, decks??
>
>
>---(cut off when replying)-------------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>---------------------------------------------
--=====================_11199259==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
acutally.. all you have to do it route analog video from the DVD player (Hollywood PLus in my case) to RT2000... then take the video OUT of the RT2k.. to ANY recording device (your DV deck /camcorder for instance)... all the copy protection is stripped by that loop thru.... simple and it works beautifully.. of course you could capture it and convert it to MPEG4 to and write that to a CD-R to archive it.. works very nicely
tom
At 04:21 PM 2/2/01, you wrote:
and that software is what, decks??
---(cut off when replying)-------------------
This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
---------------------------------------------
--=====================_11199259==_.ALT--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:13:34 -0500
From: "Stephen van Vuuren"
To:
Subject: RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <001901c08d3b$7a436d40$4423a8c0@dell420me>
Gary:
Have you got the VU Meter in Premiere 6 working with the RT2000?
stephen
www.xiveren.com
"It's only after you've lost everything
that you're free to do anything."
~Tyler~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:39:00 -0800
From: "Janet Cunningham"
To:
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
Message-ID: <024e01c08d71$525e3360$955ff9d8@hydra>
I would like one that has NO frame drops and that can capture both dv and
Hi8. What would you recommend.
Janet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Haynie"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
>
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:16:39 EST, MQSowder@aol.com jammed all night, and
by sunrise was heard saying:
>
> > powerhouse though. Go with the DC10+. Not bad. you have to shut
practically
> > every program on your pc to run it.
>
> That's actually a function of your capture software more than the card.
> I have a DC10+ in my Win98 PC (800MHz Athlon) and capture using
> VirtualDub's capture mode. You can't interact with other apps during
> capture. But the other day, I had one VirtualDub frameserver feeding a
> TMPGenc MPEG-2 encoding at the same time I captured from the DC10+, and
> not a frame was dropped (well, almost none -- VirtualDub with audio-sync
> enabled will drop or double the occasional frame, to keep video in lock
> step with audio).
>
> > The edit software is easy and if you
> > don't go overboard on the effects, your render times are very
reasonable.
>
> I gather it's fairly decent basic editing software. Given that you can
> pay the same price for software-only from MGI or Ulead, for the basic
> editing application, you can't really go wrong here. But I use more
> advanced tools, and the DC10+ cooperates with those, too.
>
> --
> Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology | http://www.metabox.de
> dhaynie@jersey.net | Met@box AG | http://www.metaboxusa.com
>
>
> ---(cut off when replying)-------------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> ---------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 13:51:56 -1000
From: Jon Burkhart
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: What realtime can/can't do?
Message-ID: <3A7B481C.D3AFCD07@maui.net>
Roberto Tietzmann wrote:
> -Are RT boards capable of overlaying titles in realtime?
>
Yes, both the Canopus Rex RT and the Canopus Storm card to several layers of titling in realtime. They are available only on the PC platform. The number of layers that can be handled in
realtime may be determined by how fast your CPU is. The minimum CPU is a PIII running at 500 mhz. Dual CPUs are even better.
Aloha,
Jon Burkhart
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:58:24 -0800
From: Tim Griffen
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Editing Etiquette
Message-ID: <3A7B49A1.FEBDF17E@home.com>
I've followed this thread and found it to be very interesting but I'm
not going to refer to any one post in particular. Everyone seems to have
a valid opinion, however "this" is the issue I would like to address.
During our last PVASD meeting (Professional Videographers Assoc. of San
Diego) we had a rather similar discussion on defining "cheesy." What a
dilemma! Everyone had a different opinion with some almost opposite. How
could this be possible among professionals?
We did, however, reach a general consensus on several points.
1. Redundancy - If whatever you do is perceived by the audience as
"unnecessarily redundant" then it could be defined as cheesy, i.e. one
special effect after another, the same or similar effect over and over,
or too many producers using the same effects (canned effects).
This is the beauty of simple cuts and soft dissolves - they happen
without notice . . . when used properly.
Special effects are difficult and expensive to generate and, therefore,
tend to be used over and over (hopefully not in the same project). This
"nature of the beast" puts us all into easily recognizable categories -
those of us using Lightwave, AfterEffects, Storm, Boris, Avid, etc.
The fact that we can so easily recognize a software or a system
expresses how redundancy can be recognizable. We know it when we see it.
2. Contenuity - If the effect brings attention to itself and separates
you from the flow of the content then it's most likely to be perceived
as cheesy.
3. Quality - Poor special effects with some technical flaws are
considered cheesy, i.e. glitches, glops, dropouts, poor color keying,
pixelated, etc.
I tend to believe "if it's not broke, don't fix it." Simple cuts, soft
dissolves, and a good story are all you really need. The rest is icing
on the cake, so allow special effects to enhance your delivery and never
allow it to be the delivery.
The general public has been slowly and methodically subjected to a set
of "story telling rules" that are difficult to violate regardless of the
age group of your target audience. I'm not just talking cinematography
nor this century.
It took millions of years of evolution to gain the ability to
communicate. Let's not fall into a naive attitude that this is a nature
of our lifetime, movie making, or digital video. These are merely
hiccups in the totality of the history of the human race.
The most powerful images you can evoke through the images in your
project are the ones created "inside the minds" of the viewer and not on
the screen. This is why movie makers have understood the importance of
allowing the viewer to develop these images without actually showing
them the images. Special effects can create "lazy" viewers who loose the
point. This is why we often say, "I can't remember what they were
selling but it was a really great commercial."
You need to build a solid foundation, a story, before you add the
effects. Be careful shopping or buying equipment just for its capability
to perform special effects you've seen and liked. Otherwise, you'll
become victim to building a story around these effects.
Tim Griffen,
FCPUG San Diego
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 15:51:42 -0800
From: "Robert C. Fisher"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: What realtime can/can't do?
Message-ID: <3A7B480D.EE3F34A7@pacbell.net>
Roberto
The realtime board that will do the most is the ProMax RT board the Matrox is realtime preview only. As for a release date for FCP Realtime...maybe at NAB(right now no one is talking) then
the RT cards will start delivering shortly thereafter. In the meantime I would go for a new G4, they are fast.
Cheers
Bob Fisher
FishPond Digital
Roberto Tietzmann wrote:
> Hello, all!
>
> Sorry if this is an old topic, but I am a newbie to the realtime hardware
> field.
>
> Recently, I got a client whose demands included a lot of titling and
> subtitling in various videos. My trusty blue G3 + FCP is VERY slow to handle
> this, due to recompression times. So I ask you:
>
> -Are RT boards capable of overlaying titles in realtime?
>
> -Are the coming realtime boards for Mac OS (Matrox, Promax) able to do this?
>
> -If so, when are they coming out? As well as FCP-RT too.
>
> Thanks for all,
>
> Roberto
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:33:23 -0800
From: "Cesare A. Galtieri"
To:
Subject: Re: Editing Etiquette
Message-ID: <00d201c08d78$eb2498d0$0300a8c0@Talofa03>
In very old movies they often used very slooow dissolves. Before the recent
craze for special effects, it seems to me that the general trend had been
toward simple cuts and rather quick dissolves. Is that right? or do I
remember wrongly?
I think that the only "really good" special effect is the one that you do
not notice, or only notice afterwards, realizing that some scene was not
likely to have been recorded "from real life".
Cesare
----- Original Message ----- >
> This is the beauty of simple cuts and soft dissolves - they happen
> without notice . . . when used properly.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:42:07 EST
From: MQSowder@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
Message-ID:
In a message dated 2/2/01 5:43:28 PM Central Standard Time,
janetcunningham@earthlink.net writes:
<< I would like one that has NO frame drops and that can capture both dv and
Hi8. What would you recommend. >>
Best board under the price cap of the Matrox RT2000. IMHO, the DV500. Their
is a product for about 200 less by dazzle or fast. Check out
www.videoguys.com. The prices are very competitive and the information on the
website is fantastic.
Matt Sowder
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:17:58 -0500
From: Gary Bettan
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: RT2000 w/ Premiere 6 in stock!!
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202201726.00d1d340@pop3.cris.com>
At 12:13 PM 2/2/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Have you got the VU Meter in Premiere 6 working with the RT2000?
I have not tried it. The real-time audio mixing is coming with the next
software driver release.
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
http://www.videoguys.com Home of the Desk Top Video Handbook On Line
All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:19:18 -0500
From: Gary Bettan
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Generic capture board
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010202201810.00cc1300@pop3.cris.com>
At 03:39 PM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I would like one that has NO frame drops and that can capture both dv and
>Hi8. What would you recommend.
Check out the Dazzle*Fast DV.now.AV $499.95
It's a nice bundle, including Premiere 5.1 (free upgrade ot 6.0). The
Fast.Forward software does a very nice job for scanning and batch capture.
Gary
The Electronic Mailbox 800 323-2325
We Are The Desk Top Video Editing & Production Experts
http://www.videoguys.com Home of the Desk Top Video Handbook On Line
All DTV purchases come with our exclusive 30 day customer
assurance program and FREE Tech Support (516) 759-1615
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:41:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
Message-ID: <20010203024135.27966.qmail@web4006.mail.yahoo.com>
I've played DVCAM tapes that are 5 years old, maybe
more, with no trouble. Nobody knows yet how long
they'll last because they haven't been out all that
many years. I think most all tape is similar and if
you keep it stored properly, in its case, rewound,
clean, under normal and reasonably steady temperature
and humidity conditions, then it will last many years.
I've played and edited from BetacamSP tapes that are
12 years old, and 3/4 tapes that are nearly 20 years
old.
What you've got to really worry about, IMHO, is having
equipment to play the tapes after the format becomes
obsolete. It's already getting difficult to find
people with functioning 3/4 decks...and with hi-8
decks too.
Nice thing about the digital world, though, is that
you can clone the tape to the next new digital format
with no real generational loss when you see the old
format start to get obsolete. So if you look at it
that way, they'll last forever.
If you plan on keeping tapes a long time, if you have
footage you consider valuable, it might be a good idea
to clone them all anyway. And be sure to shoot on the
best quality tape you can get.
--- Cedric Tineo wrote:
> I have read somewhere that DVCPRO tape have a much
> longer expected life than
> Dv or Dvcam tapes, because of some lubrication
> inside the tape ? Is this
> true ? How many years can I expect from
> dv/dvcam/dvcpro before I will loose
> data.
>
> Are there precautions to observe for a better
> conservation (humidity,
> temperature) ?
>
> Anyone can enlighten us ?
>
> Cedric Tineo
> STEP Productions - Switzerland
>
>
> ---(cut off when replying)-------------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L
> Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com,
> http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the
> contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money:
> http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> ---------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 20:54:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Tape conservation dvcam vs dvcpro?
Message-ID: <200102030254.UAA10701@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>What you've got to really worry about, IMHO, is having
>equipment to play the tapes after the format becomes
>obsolete. It's already getting difficult to find
>people with functioning 3/4 decks...and with hi-8
>decks too.
I've got a fully functional UmaticSP 9800 series editing system, with LTC.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 21:08:05 -0600
From: Bill Finch
To: DV-L@DVCentral.org
Subject: Premiere 6.0 and Title Deko
Message-ID: <3A7B7614.F04B8330@ix.netcom.com>
It seems unlikely but I read that the Premiere 6.0 upgrade package ships
with Pinnacle's Title Deko. If this is so does the new install package
also include Title Deko?
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 22:43:09 -0500
From: "bullardc"
To:
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <013e01c08dac$b591daa0$9a14850a@bh>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_013B_01C08D69.A743E120
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What I was pointing out, without being to obvious was the software =
that allows you to copy the contents of the dvd to the hard drive =
"digitally" while stripping the macrovision, then taking the content out =
digitally as you see fit. That software's command to do so is labeled =
"copy/decrypt" as it transfers the content from the dvd drive to the =
hard drive.
------=_NextPart_000_013B_01C08D69.A743E120
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What I was pointing out, without being = to=20 obvious was the software that allows you to copy the contents of the = dvd to=20 the hard drive "digitally" while stripping the macrovision, then = taking the=20 content out digitally as you see fit. That software's command to = do so=20 is labeled "copy/decrypt" as it transfers the content from the dvd = drive to=20 the hard drive.
------=_NextPart_000_013B_01C08D69.A743E120--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 22:18:16 -0600
From: "Marc C. Hood, EdD"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Premiere 6.0 and Title Deko
Message-ID: <3A7B8688.A2BB430D@adent.com>
Yes.
mhood, CIC
Bill Finch wrote:
> It seems unlikely but I read that the Premiere 6.0 upgrade package ships
> with Pinnacle's Title Deko. If this is so does the new install package
> also include Title Deko?
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:17:11 -1100
From: "TJ Lavata'i"
To:
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <00a301c08d98$2eb47e20$614b4dc6@lavapro>
Hi Guys..........
Couple of things seem to be misunderstood here:
1) Capturing from a DVD player through the analog input of the RT2k is NOT
"ripping".
Although the RT2000 happily captures from DVD, ignoring Macrovision, it
is still a "capture".
Macrovision is easily defeated a number of ways - proc amps being the
method of choice by most.
Since the RT2000 has built in proc amps - it strips the signal of
macrovision on it's way in from the analog
inputs - no fancy routing is required. Rather than all the fuss - if I
can't see a dvd I rented right away I simply
pass it through an open capture window in Premiere and record to video
tape - I don't even capture it.
2) What "ripping" is: When you place the DVD into a computer DVD player and
use ripping software to "rip"
the DVD digitally to your hard drive - this is "ripping".
The digital copy protection on a DVD is DSS - and although there are
software ways to strip the digital
protection from a DVD, I would say that there are probably no legal
reasons to do so. The only people I
know who do this, and who would bother spending the rendering time to
compress the results to an Mpeg1
signal, are those who rip DVD's for the purpose of creating and selling
pirate VCD's.
TJ Lavata'i
Lavata'i Productions
Am. Samoa
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:20:35 -0500
From: Bertel Schmitt
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: DV-L News of the Day
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010202231526.04eb3ec0@popserver.panix.com>
Yeah-sure-dept.: If you can believe today's Business Wire, Actiontec's USB
Home Networking Wizard and Internal PCI Home Networking Wizard
will "make anyone a home networking wizard." Their sincere promise: "The
Home Networking Wizards eliminate the usual difficulty of interconnecting
all the PCs and peripherals in consumers' homes by turning the home's
existing telephone wiring into a high performance HPNA2.0-compatible 10
Mbps network. "
TV Liberation Armies: Avid Technology, Chyron Corporation and Mixed
Signals Technologies have signed on as charter members of the "Liberate
PopTV(TM) Tools Program, an initiative dedicated to the integration of
current software tools with the Liberate TV Platform(TM) software." This as
per a report by Businesswire. According to the same source, "The Liberate
PopTV Tools Program is designed to simplify and accelerate the creation and
distribution of enhanced content for interactive television. "
Most useless study of the day: "A Web poll of over 2,300 young people and
adults indicates that most young people (65%) believe they can grow up to
be anything they want to be, while a majority of adults (52%) do not work
in the professions they dreamt about as children. " This research was
commissioned by monster.com "the leading global career portal on the Web."
Why rip when you can make your own: According to Business Wire, "Sonic
Solutions (Nasdaq:SNIC) today introduced Sonic DVD Fusion for Windows(TM),
an integrated and complete DVD production system for the Microsoft(R)
Windows platform designed for studio, post production and corporate video
professionals. Combining cutting-edge authoring functionality with Sonic's
advanced DVD formatting technology, DVD Fusion for Windows brings a new
level of DVD authoring power and ease-of-use to the increasing number of
video professionals who use Windows-based systems."
"Building on the same award-winning technology used in Sonic's DVD
Creator(TM) high-end authoring system and inspired by the feedback from
thousands of Macintosh-based DVD Creator and DVD Fusion users worldwide,"
the report gushes on, "DVD Fusion for Windows sets new standards in ease of
use and productivity for professional DVD production systems. Video editors
will find the timeline-based user interface very familiar, and appreciate
the precise control over audio, video and subtitles it provides.
Drag-and-drop authoring of navigation and menu layout makes title design an
intuitive and efficient process." DVD Fusion is available both as a
standalone authoring application and as a complete system that includes
Sonic's studio-quality video encoder. The complete DVD Fusion system takes
advantage of the multi-tasking capability of Windows 2000, allowing users
to encode, author and format multiple DVD titles simultaneously. This
announcement is obviously directly related to the incessant discussion of
DVD ripping activities right here on DV-L.
Compaq goes postal: "Compaq Computer Corp. (NYSE: CPQ) has signed an
agreement with the US Postal Service to offer Presario Internet PCs and a
variety of Internet services options to 800,000 postal employees in more
than 42,000 locations across the United States including Puerto Rico,
Hawaii and Guam. In addition, Compaq will create a custom portal through
which postal employees can securely access the USPS Intranet. " This just
in from PRNewswire.
Slow day today at the DV-L Newsdesk. Transmission ends. BS +++
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:21:58 -0500
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <20010202235723.58FB.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:17:11 -1100, "TJ Lavata'i" jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> Couple of things seem to be misunderstood here:
> 1) Capturing from a DVD player through the analog input of the RT2k is NOT
> "ripping". Although the RT2000 happily captures from DVD, ignoring Macrovision, it
> is still a "capture". Macrovision is easily defeated a number of ways - proc amps being the
> method of choice by most. Since the RT2000 has built in proc amps - it strips the signal of
> macrovision on it's way in from the analog inputs - no fancy routing is required.
"Fancy routing"? What would that be?
Macrovision's concept is pretty simple -- it puts a moving spike in the
normally unused are of the horizontal and/or vertical blanking interval
of the video signal. This has a tendency to cause most AGC (automatic
gain control) circuits to kick into high gear and drop signal gain, thus
missing the sync pulse.
They figured the specifics out years ago in such a way that most TVs
tended to ignore it (but not all) and most VCRs were screwed up by it
(but not all). In more recent times, both TVs and VCRs are designed with
Macrovision in mind. If you can control or disable AGC on a commercial
VCR or computer capture card, you can probably record Macrovision just
dandy. It's not in the picture, and thus, not in the digital stream
(though the TiVO personal video recorder apparently will detect and flag
any Microvision video it records, and re-apply Macrovision on the way
out).
The level of the moving spike pulse makes it illegal for broadcast. But
of course, a digital transmission or media, like digital cable/satellite
or DVD, can apply the Macrovision pretty simply on output.
> 2) What "ripping" is: When you place the DVD into a computer DVD player and
> use ripping software to "rip" the DVD digitally to your hard drive - this is
> "ripping".
Essentially, another word for "copying from the disc to the hard drive".
Of course, with DVD, it's fairly useless if you don't also remove the
encryption.
> The digital copy protection on a DVD is DSS
Actually it's called CSS, for Content Scrambling System. DSS is
RCA/Hughes name for their digital satellite system (the one that DirecTV
provides content over, though many people think they're the same thing).
I don't know of any "DSS" properly applied to DVD nomenclature.
> - and although there are software ways to strip the digital rotection from
> a DVD, I would say that there are probably no legal reasons to do so.
Actually, the initial CSS crack was done for a perfectly valid reason:
several Linux hackers simply wanted to watch DVDs on Linux, much the way
you can on Windows. In order to see a DVD, you must descramble it, there
is no other option. The software that does this is licensed under some
truely heinous security (a friend of mine works at a company that does
DVD software for much of the PC industry, I know this to be true). The
DVD consortium would not allow such code out for Linux.
> The only people I know who do this, and who would bother spending the rendering time to
> compress the results to an Mpeg1 signal, are those who rip DVD's for the purpose of
> creating and selling pirate VCD's.
That's certainly possible (not that I know any such people). But not too
likely. Much of the illegal/copyright infringing VCD market is based on
the ability of VCD producers to get current, theatrical films out quick,
long before the DVD is available.
The main pirate's use of the DeCSS-type tools are for ripping DVDs and
encoding them in MPEG-4, on CD for personal use or for trading on the
net. Even with MPEG-4 quality, this is fairly self-limiting, since only
a kid with way too much free time would bother. Personally, I'd rather
spend the $19.95 for the DVD, get better quality, and have my 3 or 4
hours for other, more meaningful pursuits.
For anyone doing commercial DVD piracy, there's no point -- a direct DVD
to DVD dub wouldn't require decryption. This is precisely why the DVD-R
folks split the DVD-R format into two incompatible types of blanks:
"authoring" type, which can store the decryption keys for a
hollywood-style DVD, and "consumer", which can't.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology | http://www.metabox.de
dhaynie@jersey.net | Met@box AG | http://www.metaboxusa.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:48:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <200102030548.XAA11472@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_013B_01C08D69.A743E120
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please turn off HTML e-mail. Thanks.
> What I was pointing out, without being to obvious was the software =
>that allows you to copy the contents of the dvd to the hard drive =
>"digitally" while stripping the macrovision, then taking the content out =
>digitally as you see fit. That software's command to do so is labeled =
>"copy/decrypt" as it transfers the content from the dvd drive to the =
>hard drive.
FYI, Macrovision is NOT part of the DVD video. MPEG-2 video does NOT
contain any VBI or video sync information and therefore cannot contain
Macrovision. Macrovision is generated on the fly in the DVD player, or
the computer's MPEG-2 card. That is why it can be turned on and off.
Also, if you have software only playing DVD software on your computer,
there is no Macrovision anywhere, because there is no need. [Poor
sentence, but you get my drift.]
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:07:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DV-L News of the Day
Message-ID: <200102030607.AAA11587@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Yeah-sure-dept.: If you can believe today's Business Wire, Actiontec's USB
>Home Networking Wizard and Internal PCI Home Networking Wizard
>will "make anyone a home networking wizard." Their sincere promise: "The
>Home Networking Wizards eliminate the usual difficulty of interconnecting
>all the PCs and peripherals in consumers' homes by turning the home's
>existing telephone wiring into a high performance HPNA2.0-compatible 10
>Mbps network. "
I'd like to see them promise that when the user already has DSL on their
phone circuit! With some work it probably can be done, but it would have
to be explained :-)
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:41:21 EST
From: Triglyph@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID: <76.76e88dd.27ad0211@aol.com>
In a message dated 2/2/01 10:46:20 AM, jhart3@hotmail.com writes:
<< If you can't get it with a straight cut... your footage is screwed
and it's time to re-shoot. >>
That is an old editing addage; as you say: If you can't say it with a
straight cut, there is something wrong with your footage. The other one is
"If you can't solve it, dissolve it." I just finished a book about visual
storytelling and there are three chapters on cinema language, visual
storytelling and shooting for editorial, so I've done a lot of thinking about
this lately. The most interesting and difficult part of the process was to
select individual frames to illustrate the various points of narrative
storytelling. It can be tricky to find that one single frame that shows the
point (especially hard if what you are talking about is something like camera
moves).
As part of it I watched or rewatched about 60 of the greatest films of all
time. Needless to say, I'm pretty much a straight cuts guy in terms of
narrative storytelling, as so many people have expressed here. But there are
certainly legitimate uses for some devices such as dissolves or even split
screen. Real experimentation is also useful: certainly there is no more of a
classical master than Alfred Hitchcock: but did you know that one of his
finest, most classical simple films (Dial M For Murder) was originally shot
in 3-D.
As has been said here, it all depends on your uses. This all applies to
narrative storytelling (feature film, documentary, industrial, training
film). When it comes to something like advertising, promotion or music
videos, I think it's really anything goes. Yes, it's eye candy, but candy is
OK... in moderation. I think what many of react against is the BAD use of
effects. People who are inclined to OVERuse them are also likely to be bad
moviemakers to begin with.
cheers,
blain
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:37:01 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Editing Etiquette, was DVStorm
Message-ID: <77452592E49.AAA2AC0@mail1.21stcentury.net>
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Hi wes chow, you wrote on 2/2/2001 2:30:54 PM:
> There's no reason to assume that a generation of moviergoers is
> brainless simply because they're new. If new styles come from new
> tech it's not going to come from pre-packaged fades and swirls
> and blurs.
>
>oh, whoops... that's not what I meant at all. My point is that it's no
>good to be "cuts and dissolves only" sort of people if it's because of
>a strict adherence to what might possibly be outdated principles. Of
>course nobody is going to admit that "outdate principles" is the reason
>why they try to stick to only cuts and dissolves... and yet, before my
>post, not a single person made an argument in favor of fancy
>transitions...
You're probably right... As I was wandering around today... it occured
to me that, properly crafted and used in a slightly more traditional
manner or context {as transitional elements} that something like this
might have some value.
I'd think it would have to have a great deal to do with the intent of
the film/video maker and with the technique and the imagery involved.
I suppose I tend to think of transitions in terms of those nasty presets
that one fixes really bad camera work with.
--
http://www.freespeech.org/apophysis/
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:49:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <200102030649.AAA11748@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Macrovision's concept is pretty simple -- it puts a moving spike in the
>normally unused are of the horizontal and/or vertical blanking interval
>of the video signal. This has a tendency to cause most AGC (automatic
>gain control) circuits to kick into high gear and drop signal gain, thus
>missing the sync pulse.
Macrovision is not in the horizontal sync area. Never has and never will.
>They figured the specifics out years ago in such a way that most TVs
>tended to ignore it (but not all) and most VCRs were screwed up by it
>(but not all). In more recent times, both TVs and VCRs are designed with
>Macrovision in mind. If you can control or disable AGC on a commercial
>VCR or computer capture card, you can probably record Macrovision just
>dandy. It's not in the picture, and thus, not in the digital stream
>(though the TiVO personal video recorder apparently will detect and flag
>any Microvision video it records, and re-apply Macrovision on the way
>out).
Part of a deal worked out several years ago with the license holder of VHS,
JVC, was that the AGC circuit would not be changed. One of those Hollywood
thingies to erode your right to record for your own use.
When Macrovision first came out, the JVC deck that I had I modified to
bypass the AGC chip. Yes, Macrovision will record just fine.
>The level of the moving spike pulse makes it illegal for broadcast. But
>of course, a digital transmission or media, like digital cable/satellite
>or DVD, can apply the Macrovision pretty simply on output.
Actually, Macrovision is broadcastable, over an analog transmitter only.
It can't be "broadcast" over a MPEG-2 datastream because the VBI is not
encoded. No VBI, no Macrovision.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:06:00 -0500
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <20010203020345.58FE.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:49:07 -0600 (CST), Vidiot jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> >The level of the moving spike pulse makes it illegal for broadcast. But
> >of course, a digital transmission or media, like digital cable/satellite
> >or DVD, can apply the Macrovision pretty simply on output.
> Actually, Macrovision is broadcastable, over an analog transmitter only.
I didn't say it technically couldn't be broadcast, I said it was illegal
for broadcast, at least in the USA and Europe. The "spike" goes 15% over
white level, which violates broadcast standards, plain and simple.
--
Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology | http://www.metabox.de
dhaynie@jersey.net | Met@box AG | http://www.metaboxusa.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:54:39 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID: <774525921612.AAA3518@mail1.21stcentury.net>
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Hi John Hartney, you wrote on 2/2/2001 10:45:28 AM:
>Well, my thought is Lucas edits to his audience. Kids like flash and they
>don't see things like any other age group. My nine year old son was
>watching the 3rd star wars a while ago and there was a scene where the
>heros
>were outside some schmaltzy fortress and to get to the inside shot Lucas
>used a hard edged clock wipe.....
>
>Looked terrible to me, but it works, obviously, for his main audience. In
>a
>creative sense, it is like writing. What are you trying to say and to
>whom=3F
What=3F Is that the wipes seemed out of place to me. In the middle of
beautifully built CGI... they seemed to have no purpose. What I
surmised was that it was meant as a tribute or flash back to Flash
Gordon and AstroBoy. I can't think of any other reason to use them.
>Do we dangle a participle or throw a booger=3F
Your call, I suppose. I don't see kids as Lucas' main audience. I think
his work, on a lot of levels, is a bit too sophisticated for that.
I think he's targeting just about everyone. I don't know many people
that don't like scifi/space opera at some level. Look at the degree
of sophistication that scifi *can* attain.
--
http://www.freespeech.org/apophysis/
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:24:16 -0800
From: "Richard Taylor"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: cut to the gimmicks
Message-ID: <7745259367B.AAA3F6E@mail1.21stcentury.net>
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
> beautifully built CGI... they seemed to have no purpose. What I
^ Sorry... I need to spend a bit less
time on the web, I guess.
--
http://www.freespeech.org/apophysis/
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:54:43 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <200102030754.BAA11983@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:49:07 -0600 (CST), Vidiot jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
>
>> >The level of the moving spike pulse makes it illegal for broadcast. But
>> >of course, a digital transmission or media, like digital cable/satellite
>> >or DVD, can apply the Macrovision pretty simply on output.
>
>> Actually, Macrovision is broadcastable, over an analog transmitter only.
>
>I didn't say it technically couldn't be broadcast, I said it was illegal
>for broadcast, at least in the USA and Europe. The "spike" goes 15% over
>white level, which violates broadcast standards, plain and simple.
>Dave Haynie | V.P. Technology | http://www.metabox.de
You are forgetting that the white peak pulse portion does not have to
go into that area. It can just go to 100% white. Macrovision is just as
effective if the pulse only goes to 50% white.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:58:59 -0700
From: "Richard H. Heeren"
To: "DV -L Organization"
Subject: Praise the effects (Cuts are BORING!)
Message-ID:
I thought it was about time to interject some sanity into the threads
about cuts and dissolves are all that is needed if you are a "real video
man". What a bunch of malarkey and nonsense. The "truly real video
men" know how to use many different kinds of effects and transitions to
add real "power additives" to their communications with viewers. Just
as Ansel Adams proved to the still photography world that "darkroom
effects" were the secret to photos that really communicate and that
taking a picture was the equivalent to a musical score, but the darkroom
was where the equivalent of the musical performance was done. So with
video productions, shooting and ROUGH cut editing is only one small but
important part of a truly "successful and powerful performance"!
What a boring video world it would be if video pieces could not include
any audio enhancements like music, could not include any text or
graphics, could not include any transitions that enhanced true
transitions in time, space, subject material, etc., could not include
any slow motion effects to heighten emotional impact, etc., etc., etc.!
A truly "masterful musical performance" uses many different instruments
playing under the direction of the conductor. An orchestra that only
plays trombones (cuts) and baritones (dissolves) would be mighty boring
compared to a full orchestra that included woodwinds (transitions),
percussion (effects), etc., etc., etc.!
Three cheers for the "real video men" that orchestrate a powerful
communication piece using everything and anything that adds to the
performance of a masterpiece!
Richard H. Heeren, Consultant
Shoestring Studios--Video on a Wing and a Prayer!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:10:21 -0800
From: Michael Bender
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <3A7BBCED.C3A86E0A@eng.sun.com>
> Part of a deal worked out several years ago with the license holder of VHS,
> JVC, was that the AGC circuit would not be changed. One of those Hollywood
> thingies to erode your right to record for your own use.
Although there must be exceptions to this since I have a Panasonic professional
S-VHS duplicator deck that has the ability to turn off AGC (just so that it can
record a Macrovision-infected master signal).
mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 02:15:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <200102030815.CAA12233@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>> Part of a deal worked out several years ago with the license holder of VHS,
>> JVC, was that the AGC circuit would not be changed. One of those Hollywood
>> thingies to erode your right to record for your own use.
>
>Although there must be exceptions to this since I have a Panasonic professional
>S-VHS duplicator deck that has the ability to turn off AGC (just so that it can
>record a Macrovision-infected master signal).
>mike
No exceptions. The reason is given in your statement. The key is that the
deck is a professional duplicator. Duplicators have to be able to turn off
AGC, otherwise the Macrovision crap couldn't be recorded. There aren't
many consumers that will purchase a professional deck, especially when it
doesn't have a tuner or timer.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:27:05 -0800
From: Michael Bender
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: ripping DVDs
Message-ID: <3A7BC0D9.E8A9471A@eng.sun.com>
Vidiot wrote:
>
> >> Part of a deal worked out several years ago with the license holder of VHS,
> >> JVC, was that the AGC circuit would not be changed. One of those Hollywood
> >> thingies to erode your right to record for your own use.
> >
> >Although there must be exceptions to this since I have a Panasonic professional
> >S-VHS duplicator deck that has the ability to turn off AGC (just so that it can
> >record a Macrovision-infected master signal).
> >mike
>
> No exceptions. The reason is given in your statement. The key is that the
> deck is a professional duplicator. Duplicators have to be able to turn off
> AGC, otherwise the Macrovision crap couldn't be recorded. There aren't
> many consumers that will purchase a professional deck, especially when it
> doesn't have a tuner or timer.
So is the "must have AGC" deal only for consumer decks? Also, my Panasonic
AG-DV2000 DV deck happily records signals with Macrovision as well.
Anyway, I put all this stuff through a TBC normally anyway. I wonder if I
can send Macrovision, Inc. the bill for my TBC :-).
mike
------------------------------
End of DV-L V1 #755
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