HD100 in 3D... grab your red/blue anaglyph glasses! at DVinfo.net

Tim Dashwood · September 14th, 2005, 12:49 PM

Last weekend I built a dual-HD100 mounting plate with a parralax/convergence adjustment. It sounds more complicated than it is. It only cost a total of $14 CDN (that's probably around $3 for those of you in the U.S.) including the scrap piece of 5.5" x 8" aluminum and the hardware.

Let me backtrack a little.
My friend John Mihn Tran, who is also a D.P., is planning to shoot a documentary about his dad who is an ex-Vietnamese army photographer, who immigrated to Canada 30 odd years ago and then started up a very successful camera store in Calgary. He is an amazing photographer, but a really amazing stereo-photographer.
So anyway, John showed me some of the incredible 3D photography his dad shoots with two Medium format Hassenblads and I was blown away.
I am also a 3D still photographer (old Kodak system) so I of course suggested that the film be shot in 3D so that the audience can get the full effect of the 3D photos.
We had two DVX100 cameras available to us, so we clamped them together and started doing some tests. The standard-def results were pretty good for landscape shots, but we needed the lenses to be closer. I bought the DVX service manual and with the help of Scott Burton, we took the door off of the left DVX to get the two closer together. Scott also modified a vacuum belt for us to "gang" the two focus rings together.

Fast forward two months...
I received two HD100s in August for a completely different film. I was curious about testing their suitability for 3D, so I built a simple mounting plate with the help of my dad and his shop.
The concept is simple: Put two cameras as close together as possible (ideally 2.5 inches on the centre of the lens - human eye distance.) and shoot exactly the same frame. The HD100 has the ability to show a crosshair in the viewfinder, so this really helps adjusting each shot to converge on the object of interest.
The removable EVF also helps to line up the two cameras for each shot. I strapped them together with two elastic bands. It isn't pretty but it works.
I attached one quick release plate with two 3/8" screws and then the other was only attached at the front. This allowed one plate to swivel for convergence adjustment. I then used a simple eyehole tension adjuster ($2 at a hardware store) to make the convergence adjustments.
To record, I used free run timecode and set it to start as closely as my two hands could syncronize them. I then used a simple "clapper" to syncronize each shot to the frame.

So how did it work? Right now for landscape scenes it works really well, but I need to take the lens shades off and do some more modifications if I want to get those lenses closer for wide-angle close object shooting.

Here's 3 minutes of footage I created in After Effects with the 3D glasses plugin for anaglyph red/blue colour viewing. Our final screening will obviously be in a theatre with two projectors and polarized glasses, but this will give you an idea of the effectivness.
The file is 88Mb in quicktime H.264 codec at 720p24. You need a fast computer (or a mac) and Quicktime 7 to view it. I know the PC guys will complain a little, but it really is the best codec for getting material down to 2 or 3 Mbits/sec and maintain HD resolution. The source file looks amazing on my LCD monitor.

Download here:

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/3D_test.mov

For those without the bandwidth or inclination, I have posted a few jpeg screen grabs straight from after effects. If you don't have a pair of 3D anaglyph glasses (I calibrated these shots for the ones that come free with Spy Kids 3D DVD) then grab a Rosco or Lee gel swatch book and use a blue filter on your right eye and a red one on the left.

Enjoy! Tim

Anhar Miah · September 14th, 2005, 03:18 PM

Cool stuff, congrats on the setup!. Now I need to go find one of those funny coloured glasses.

Anhar Hussain

Allan Silliphant · November 14th, 2005, 11:39 AM

Bravo...the stills look great from the JVC. Coincidently, I'm building a bit more
complex rig for a European company using the same cameras. The producer was going with Sony 1080i, but last week I convinced him to send the Sonys back and go with native progressive scan.Some of you,might know that I
manufacture plastic 3D anaglyph glasses under the "Anachrome trademark".
These are red-cyan glasses and let you see the full color spectrum better.
They correct the 250 nanometer wavelegth differential caused, focus shift,
which always softenes the view in the red filter. A whole lot of users strongly
advocate these glasses. The better color and more natural skin tones are
acquired at a cost; you can't have the cameras as far apart, because of a little increase in ghosting, as you broaden the spectrum. This closer spacing can be accomplished with "first surface mirrors" or "partial transmission
mirrors" in several ways. In general, you must reduce the spacing if there
is going to be distant b.grounds in a shot, with a main subject centered and closer. The normal eye distance is usually too much. also, toeing in for
overlay is not a good idea...better to do that in post. I'm going to Europe next week to shoot some tests with the client...you should see how good the
distant shots from the Canadian tests look with our glasses...again, BRAVO for the good work!

Jon Jaschob · November 14th, 2005, 07:18 PM

Got out my Spy Kids glasses.
Looked pretty good!
Jon

John Mitchell · November 15th, 2005, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Here's 3 minutes of footage I created in After Effects with the 3D glasses plugin for anaglyph red/blue colour viewing. Our final screening will obviously be in a theatre with two projectors and polarized glasses, but this will give you an idea of the effectivness.

Tim, if you're into 3D, I ran across the Sensio a while ago. Interesting technology - it uses LCD shutters in the glasses controlled by a sync pulse from the unit and the altenate frames are encoded into the 60i stream meaning it works with normal DVD players.

http://www.sensio.tv/en/home.htm
http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/3dpro.php

You should go and read the interview with the guys who put the system together ..
http://www.sensio.tv/en/media_zone/W...view022004.pdf

shame I don't live near anywhere that could demo it and it is a trifle exe...

Tim Dashwood · November 22nd, 2005, 06:42 PM

As it turns out JVC has partnered with Sensio.
http://www.videography.com/articles/article_13798.shtml

Did anyone else watch the 3D episode of Medium last night on standard def? The 3D effect didn't work for me. The results were the same as my tests when I downconverted to a DVD and watched on an interlaced display. The 3D effect works great on a progressive display.

We're still working out the technical issues for our film, but it looks like 720P30 might be a better solution than 720P24 for 3D.

I'll keep everyone posted.

John Mitchell · November 23rd, 2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

As it turns out JVC has partnered with Sensio.
http://www.videography.com/articles/article_13798.shtml

Did anyone else watch the 3D episode of Medium last night on standard def? The 3D effect didn't work for me. The results were the same as my tests when I downconverted to a DVD and watched on an interlaced display. The 3D effect works great on a progressive display.

We're still working out the technical issues for our film, but it looks like 720P30 might be a better solution than 720P24 for 3D.

I'll keep everyone posted.

If it was just anaglyph glasses I'm not surprised - I can imagine the interlacing would really mess with the perception. From the sounds of the article I think the partnership was in supply of gear only - i.e. JVC provided the DILA projectors and Sensio provided the 3D expertise. I'm hunting round for those glasses my daughter has so I can watch your video Tim...

Jack Zhang · December 1st, 2005, 09:14 PM

I've got 3D glasses from the game "Sly 3" and the depth is amazing! The next step in 3D technology is to somehow impliment polarization via a single projector/HDTV and a single screen.

Serge Victorovich · December 22nd, 2005, 08:03 AM

Hello,Tim!
Do you have 3D sample in over-under format 1280x1440 ?
What is minimum between centre of lenses you able get?

Tim Dashwood · December 22nd, 2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

Hello,Tim!
Do you have 3D sample in over-under format 1280x1440 ?
What is minimum between centre of lenses you able get?

No. How would you view over-under?

The minimum lens centre distance I was able to get after removing the mic holder was 5 inches. Not bad, but double the ideal distance of 2.5 inches.

Serge Victorovich · December 22nd, 2005, 10:15 AM

Tim, you can download trial of a great Stereoscopic Player, which is able to play stereoscopic video material in various formats (e.g. anglyph, side-by-side, over-under, dual screen output) using your favourite 3D glasses. Last version Stereoscopic Player 0.9.6 support separate left, right and audio files.
http://www.3dtv.at/Products/Player/Index_en.aspx
5 inch between two camcorders good only for landscape... But you can ask Allan Silliphant. He have solution:

Quote:

Unlike off the shelf JVC HDV camcorders, our rigs are genlocked for total sync accuracy, and use
special prime lenses for closer angles, rather than the 16 to 1 zoom used for longer distances.
The camera rigs allow closer spacing of the lenses than earlier crude, attempts to "twin" low cost cams.
Lens spacing is super-critical...make no mistake!

Good luck!

Marc Colemont · December 22nd, 2005, 10:30 AM

Tim, when you used the dual-HD100 setup. How do you sync them up during recording?
Is there a way to sync through the firewire for example? It has a setting sync but that is probably for other purpose...

Tim Dashwood · December 22nd, 2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colemont

Tim, when you used the dual-HD100 setup. How do you sync them up during recording?
Is there a way to sync through the firewire for example? It has a setting sync but that is probably for other purpose...

I use free run TC and manually (with two hands) click preset execute at the same time. Of course, there is no way for this to be accurate enough to the frame, so I use a simple clapper slate. It works for sound and stereo picture!

Tim Dashwood · June 22nd, 2007, 10:42 AM

I have since modified the HD100 dual rig by removing the zoom handle from the left lens and disassembling the right viewfinder. This allows me to get the two cameras much close, but I'm still no where near the 70mm interocular distance. I'm currently at about 120mm.

The next bit to remove is the little cube block that holds the microphone mount. This should give me another few millimeters, but I think I'll need to remove the Ab Gold mount bracket at the back to allow even closer configuration.

I shot another test in a cherry orchard with some very good depth. I just need to figure out a way to create the anaglyph version from within FCP and then I'll upload it. I hate moving it all over to After Effects just to use the 3D plugin.
I will post more photos within the week (I just have to take them.)

Mike Teutsch · July 30th, 2007, 01:11 PM

Tim,

I appreciate your getting this forum started. I have been researching all over the place and did not find too much that appeared usable. Then I stumbled upon the info for 3D Glasses effect in my Premiere Pro software! DUH!!!!!

I had already dumped the footage I had shot, so will have to shoot it again. I set up a test camera set-up, using the CVC cameras. Nice 3" separation, but not that great of footage for sure. Just wanted to test it out before buying another HV20. I can set the the HV20s up at approximately 3 1/4" apart. That should work fine.

Prech Marton, who started another thread here, used the HV10s also. He is using a different method for production, which I don't understand, but I will work on that.

A question for you. The human eye does not look straight ahead, so would it be of any benefit to enable each camera to look at the same center as the human eye does, rather than straight ahead?

I look forward to reading all the post here. Still downloading your movie!!!!

Mike

September 14th, 2005, 12:49 PM	#1
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	HD100 in 3D... grab your red/blue anaglyph glasses! Last weekend I built a dual-HD100 mounting plate with a parralax/convergence adjustment. It sounds more complicated than it is. It only cost a total of $14 CDN (that's probably around $3 for those of you in the U.S.) including the scrap piece of 5.5" x 8" aluminum and the hardware. Let me backtrack a little. My friend John Mihn Tran, who is also a D.P., is planning to shoot a documentary about his dad who is an ex-Vietnamese army photographer, who immigrated to Canada 30 odd years ago and then started up a very successful camera store in Calgary. He is an amazing photographer, but a really amazing stereo-photographer. So anyway, John showed me some of the incredible 3D photography his dad shoots with two Medium format Hassenblads and I was blown away. I am also a 3D still photographer (old Kodak system) so I of course suggested that the film be shot in 3D so that the audience can get the full effect of the 3D photos. We had two DVX100 cameras available to us, so we clamped them together and started doing some tests. The standard-def results were pretty good for landscape shots, but we needed the lenses to be closer. I bought the DVX service manual and with the help of Scott Burton, we took the door off of the left DVX to get the two closer together. Scott also modified a vacuum belt for us to "gang" the two focus rings together. Fast forward two months... I received two HD100s in August for a completely different film. I was curious about testing their suitability for 3D, so I built a simple mounting plate with the help of my dad and his shop. The concept is simple: Put two cameras as close together as possible (ideally 2.5 inches on the centre of the lens - human eye distance.) and shoot exactly the same frame. The HD100 has the ability to show a crosshair in the viewfinder, so this really helps adjusting each shot to converge on the object of interest. The removable EVF also helps to line up the two cameras for each shot. I strapped them together with two elastic bands. It isn't pretty but it works. I attached one quick release plate with two 3/8" screws and then the other was only attached at the front. This allowed one plate to swivel for convergence adjustment. I then used a simple eyehole tension adjuster ($2 at a hardware store) to make the convergence adjustments. To record, I used free run timecode and set it to start as closely as my two hands could syncronize them. I then used a simple "clapper" to syncronize each shot to the frame. So how did it work? Right now for landscape scenes it works really well, but I need to take the lens shades off and do some more modifications if I want to get those lenses closer for wide-angle close object shooting. Here's 3 minutes of footage I created in After Effects with the 3D glasses plugin for anaglyph red/blue colour viewing. Our final screening will obviously be in a theatre with two projectors and polarized glasses, but this will give you an idea of the effectivness. The file is 88Mb in quicktime H.264 codec at 720p24. You need a fast computer (or a mac) and Quicktime 7 to view it. I know the PC guys will complain a little, but it really is the best codec for getting material down to 2 or 3 Mbits/sec and maintain HD resolution. The source file looks amazing on my LCD monitor. Download here: http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/.Movies/3D_test.mov For those without the bandwidth or inclination, I have posted a few jpeg screen grabs straight from after effects. If you don't have a pair of 3D anaglyph glasses (I calibrated these shots for the ones that come free with Spy Kids 3D DVD) then grab a Rosco or Lee gel swatch book and use a blue filter on your right eye and a red one on the left. Enjoy! Tim Attached Thumbnails

November 14th, 2005, 11:39 AM	#3
Allan Silliphant Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3	Getting good anaglyph with JVC GY-HD100 Bravo...the stills look great from the JVC. Coincidently, I'm building a bit more complex rig for a European company using the same cameras. The producer was going with Sony 1080i, but last week I convinced him to send the Sonys back and go with native progressive scan.Some of you,might know that I manufacture plastic 3D anaglyph glasses under the "Anachrome trademark". These are red-cyan glasses and let you see the full color spectrum better. They correct the 250 nanometer wavelegth differential caused, focus shift, which always softenes the view in the red filter. A whole lot of users strongly advocate these glasses. The better color and more natural skin tones are acquired at a cost; you can't have the cameras as far apart, because of a little increase in ghosting, as you broaden the spectrum. This closer spacing can be accomplished with "first surface mirrors" or "partial transmission mirrors" in several ways. In general, you must reduce the spacing if there is going to be distant b.grounds in a shot, with a main subject centered and closer. The normal eye distance is usually too much. also, toeing in for overlay is not a good idea...better to do that in post. I'm going to Europe next week to shoot some tests with the client...you should see how good the distant shots from the Canadian tests look with our glasses...again, BRAVO for the good work!

November 14th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#4
Jon Jaschob Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 232	3d Got out my Spy Kids glasses. Looked pretty good! Jon

June 22nd, 2007, 10:42 AM	#14
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	I have since modified the HD100 dual rig by removing the zoom handle from the left lens and disassembling the right viewfinder. This allows me to get the two cameras much close, but I'm still no where near the 70mm interocular distance. I'm currently at about 120mm. The next bit to remove is the little cube block that holds the microphone mount. This should give me another few millimeters, but I think I'll need to remove the Ab Gold mount bracket at the back to allow even closer configuration. I shot another test in a cherry orchard with some very good depth. I just need to figure out a way to create the anaglyph version from within FCP and then I'll upload it. I hate moving it all over to After Effects just to use the 3D plugin. I will post more photos within the week (I just have to take them.) __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 30th, 2007, 01:11 PM	#15
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Tim, I appreciate your getting this forum started. I have been researching all over the place and did not find too much that appeared usable. Then I stumbled upon the info for 3D Glasses effect in my Premiere Pro software! DUH!!!!! I had already dumped the footage I had shot, so will have to shoot it again. I set up a test camera set-up, using the CVC cameras. Nice 3" separation, but not that great of footage for sure. Just wanted to test it out before buying another HV20. I can set the the HV20s up at approximately 3 1/4" apart. That should work fine. Prech Marton, who started another thread here, used the HV10s also. He is using a different method for production, which I don't understand, but I will work on that. A question for you. The human eye does not look straight ahead, so would it be of any benefit to enable each camera to look at the same center as the human eye does, rather than straight ahead? I look forward to reading all the post here. Still downloading your movie!!!! Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

September 14th, 2005, 03:18 PM	#2
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	Cool stuff, congrats on the setup!. Now I need to go find one of those funny coloured glasses. Anhar Hussain

November 22nd, 2005, 06:42 PM	#6
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	As it turns out JVC has partnered with Sensio. http://www.videography.com/articles/article_13798.shtml Did anyone else watch the 3D episode of Medium last night on standard def? The 3D effect didn't work for me. The results were the same as my tests when I downconverted to a DVD and watched on an interlaced display. The 3D effect works great on a progressive display. We're still working out the technical issues for our film, but it looks like 720P30 might be a better solution than 720P24 for 3D. I'll keep everyone posted.

December 1st, 2005, 09:14 PM	#8
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	I've got 3D glasses from the game "Sly 3" and the depth is amazing! The next step in 3D technology is to somehow impliment polarization via a single projector/HDTV and a single screen.

December 22nd, 2005, 08:03 AM	#9
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Hello,Tim! Do you have 3D sample in over-under format 1280x1440 ? What is minimum between centre of lenses you able get?

December 22nd, 2005, 10:30 AM	#12
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Tim, when you used the dual-HD100 setup. How do you sync them up during recording? Is there a way to sync through the firewire for example? It has a setting sync but that is probably for other purpose...