On the heels of the revolutionary P2 HD camera at DVinfo.net

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 09:48 AM

On the hills of the revolutionary P2 HD camera release we have systems starting to surface like these. More power to these guys. I was following them on the DVinfo.net forum last year as they were building their own HD camera to film their movie. I got some test clips and sent them out to my 50" Sony HD and they were amazing.

Well I guess it's a shipping camera now. The specs are high at 66 megabyte/sec. and 528 megabit/sec. This is a tiny indication of many small camera makers that will start to surface.

Here are the links.

http://www.drachenfeder.com/aktuelle..._en.htm#kamera

Specs

http://www.drachenfeder.com/aktuelles/drake_tech_en.htm

Chris Hurd · April 11th, 2005, 09:58 AM

Linkified links and moved to Industry News.

Michael I think the phrase you're looking for is "on the heels," as in, right behind.

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 10:06 AM

oooppps! Thanks Chris! Heels, heels not hills. GRRRRRRRRRR

Christopher C. Murphy · April 11th, 2005, 10:30 AM

What's the pricing on that camera? I can't find that info!

Brad Abrahams · April 11th, 2005, 10:48 AM

"The price of the system (for the complete scale of benefits see below) will be approx. 15,000.- EUR (approx. 19,500.- USD)."

Christopher C. Murphy · April 11th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Oops, I just looked at the second link!

Isn't that damn good for the quality compared to everything else we're talking about? Those clips are downcoverted and still look HD to me on my 23" Cinema display.

The camera package you get from the first look is pretty awesome...includes the matte box! It looks like another $5-10k and you got yourself an awesome HD setup!

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 11:20 AM

Amazing isn't it....

It is a filmmaking tool... A figure in that price is higher to make back their time and investment. Imagine a big company that has massive resources and tons of r&d cash flow/capital. They could do this same camera at a much much lower cost.

There is not a camera that can do 10bit at 528 mega bit data stream any where near this price. There are so many companies out there that can build systems and intergrate technology together that are a thousand + times bigger then the Drake makers. If this is just the start point of smaller camera makers, then we are going to see some amazing tools/gear over time.

I read about a group of russian guys that are making a DSLR Rebel 300d shoot video off the cmos. If that is possible, then my god where is all this going to go.. We are all going to have little Imax camera's in our pockets at some point.

I have seen some of this footage from the DRAKE on my 50" Sony HD and it's amazing quality even though the clips were low res HD compared to the originals. That's amazing............

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Oops, I just looked at the second link!

Isn't that damn good for the quality compared to everything else we're talking about? Those clips are downcoverted and still look HD to me on my 23" Cinema display.

The camera package you get from the first look is pretty awesome...includes the matte box! It looks like another $5-10k and you got yourself an awesome HD setup! -->>>

Christopher C. Murphy · April 11th, 2005, 01:07 PM

Michael, I'm with you man..

It's 2005 and I'm 32 (ok, 33 in June!) - I keep imagining 2010-ish. We're going to be onto the "Pro" HDV bigtime. I'm thinking that by the time I'm 40 I'll have access to equipment that shoots "film" quality...if not better than "film" because of the consistancy of the shooting.

I read an article recently that said some of the best HD cameras (like the one used for Sin City) are actually better than film if you look at the way you can count on the shots. Apparently, the Sin City HD camera was totally uncompressed 100%...other HD cameras have some type of color spacing issues. I think it's 4:4:4....other HD's are like 4:4:2 or something.

Anyway, all that aside here. This Drake camera is made by some novices who are (what looks like to me) a start up company. That's amazing!

If that doesn't make the big corps work harder I don't know what will. I can't wait to see these generations of cameras coming up. Personally, I believe the "HD" thing is almost solved...meaning, we're there and it can only get better and better.

The next frontier is 3D HD....my next toy after all the HD stuff is out is some type of 3D HD device. That's going to be so much fun!

Check these out:
http://www.avsolutions.com.my/3d_dev01.html

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Christopher...

That's right, made by novices. Now if that's what a group of novices can do then holy *^&% wait tell the other entrepreneurs types that eat , drink and breath making technology get in this game.

With their OEM electronics catalogs of CCDs, CMOS censors, semi-conducters , AD DA converters etc etc these people will piece together amazing cameras.

What's great is they don't even have to worry about making lenses, you just machine the right mount. Memory systems are plenty for choice. Awesome simply awesome what's to coming in the near future.

Like I said there are these russian engineers / filmmakers that are modifying a Digital rebel and it's Cmos to shoot HD. They asked me for some info. I can't wait to see their results. The implications of something like this is scary in the greatest way.

I guess if you can get 4:4:4 12bit+ out of a modified DVX100A anything is almost possible.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : This Drake camera is made by some novices who are (what looks like to me) a start up company. That's amazing!

If that doesn't make the big corps work harder I don't know what will. I can't wait to see these generations of cameras coming up. Personally, I believe the "HD" thing is almost solved...meaning, we're there and it can only get better and better.
-->>>

Christopher C. Murphy · April 11th, 2005, 01:57 PM

Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol

This must be a result of all the "nano" technology. It's been around a few years now, so it's about time it made its way into cameras. I'm kind of shocked (in a good way) at the way things have progressed in the past 3 years. I was there in 1997 when the first HDTV broadcasts started and they looked like crap...and I mean really bad crap. Pixelated so bad that you couldn't even make out an image most of the time. That remained the same until about 3 years ago when things really opened up...the pipes or maybe the engineers finally "got it". I do remember way back then in 1997 the Chief Engineer at the station I worked at said, "It's a dirty little secret, but none of this stuff is really going to work for about 10 more years. It will definately be there beforehand, but overall it will take 8-10 years for everyone to get it right."

Here we are 8 years later and I think we can all agree it's starting to come together on all fronts. The big corps are making amazing HD cameras, and also they're making them for smaller people like us. They're getting ready to release HD-DVD's in 2005....HD sets are less than $500 now. The channels are opening up...I just got the "WB" in HD this week on my Comcast cable. Oh, don't forget HD cell phones!

He was right.....in my opinion, the general public is ready for HD now. The Internet has truly opened the flood gates for the new "tech" savvy generations. The older crowds don't need to know a thing...everything is basically the same for them. They can buy an HDTV set and not have to understand a thing beyond getting an HD hookup at home or using Sattelite, oh...and a few more buttons on the remote...that's all.

So, we're a worldwide HD human race now. What's next? lol

Kevin Dooley · April 11th, 2005, 02:27 PM

What HD TV's are under $500? I'm ready to buy one in that case!

Christopher C. Murphy · April 11th, 2005, 02:58 PM

They're everywhere!

I did a search for "HDTV for $500" - this is what I got:

http://www.dealtime.com/xPP-Flat_Panel_Televisions-~S-213~OR-0~PG-5

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000A2UAW/ref=ase_dealtime-ce-feed-20/104-8193700-0010351?v=glance&s=electronics

Glenn Gipson · April 11th, 2005, 03:28 PM

>>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<<

They're announcing their final product at NAB.

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 04:57 PM

Check out this Link. NAB booth info

http://reel-stream.com/

and this link

http://reel-stream.com/main.

It's very much alive and very real.............

<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : >>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<<

They're announcing their final product at NAB. -->>>

Michael Pappas · April 11th, 2005, 05:07 PM

Here is a 36bit HD frame capture from the DVX100A

http://www.orocomo.com/images/Reel-Stream/36bit_HD.tif

and another

http://reel-stream.com/img3/cap11_HD.tif

and some specs

Color precision: 24bit, 30bit, 36bit
Sampling modes: Full-bandwidth RGB, 4:4:4 YUV, 4:4:2 YUV, 4:2:4 YUV, 4:2:2 YUV, 4:2:0 YUV, 4:0:2 YUV, 4:1:1 YUV

Frame size:
1280x720** (16:9 with anamorphic adapter),
1124x720**(NTSC pixels, full optical frame),
770x492(NTSC pixels),
720x480(NTSC pixels),
others user-defined

A graph show the how to:

http://reel-stream.com/andromeda_graphic.php

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas : Check out this Link. NAB booth info

http://reel-stream.com/

and this link

http://reel-stream.com/main.

It's very much alive and very real.............

<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : >>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<<

They're announcing their final product at NAB. -->>> -->>>

April 11th, 2005, 09:48 AM	#1
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	On the hills of the revolutionary P2 HD camera On the hills of the revolutionary P2 HD camera release we have systems starting to surface like these. More power to these guys. I was following them on the DVinfo.net forum last year as they were building their own HD camera to film their movie. I got some test clips and sent them out to my 50" Sony HD and they were amazing. Well I guess it's a shipping camera now. The specs are high at 66 megabyte/sec. and 528 megabit/sec. This is a tiny indication of many small camera makers that will start to surface. Here are the links. http://www.drachenfeder.com/aktuelle..._en.htm#kamera Specs http://www.drachenfeder.com/aktuelles/drake_tech_en.htm

April 11th, 2005, 09:58 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Linkified links and moved to Industry News. Michael I think the phrase you're looking for is "on the heels," as in, right behind. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 11th, 2005, 10:30 AM	#4
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	What's the pricing on that camera? I can't find that info! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

April 11th, 2005, 10:52 AM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Oops, I just looked at the second link! Isn't that damn good for the quality compared to everything else we're talking about? Those clips are downcoverted and still look HD to me on my 23" Cinema display. The camera package you get from the first look is pretty awesome...includes the matte box! It looks like another $5-10k and you got yourself an awesome HD setup! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

April 11th, 2005, 01:07 PM	#8
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Michael, I'm with you man.. It's 2005 and I'm 32 (ok, 33 in June!) - I keep imagining 2010-ish. We're going to be onto the "Pro" HDV bigtime. I'm thinking that by the time I'm 40 I'll have access to equipment that shoots "film" quality...if not better than "film" because of the consistancy of the shooting. I read an article recently that said some of the best HD cameras (like the one used for Sin City) are actually better than film if you look at the way you can count on the shots. Apparently, the Sin City HD camera was totally uncompressed 100%...other HD cameras have some type of color spacing issues. I think it's 4:4:4....other HD's are like 4:4:2 or something. Anyway, all that aside here. This Drake camera is made by some novices who are (what looks like to me) a start up company. That's amazing! If that doesn't make the big corps work harder I don't know what will. I can't wait to see these generations of cameras coming up. Personally, I believe the "HD" thing is almost solved...meaning, we're there and it can only get better and better. The next frontier is 3D HD....my next toy after all the HD stuff is out is some type of 3D HD device. That's going to be so much fun! Check these out: http://www.avsolutions.com.my/3d_dev01.html __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

April 11th, 2005, 10:06 AM	#3
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	oooppps! Thanks Chris! Heels, heels not hills. GRRRRRRRRRR

April 11th, 2005, 10:48 AM	#5
Brad Abrahams Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 65	"The price of the system (for the complete scale of benefits see below) will be approx. 15,000.- EUR (approx. 19,500.- USD)."

April 11th, 2005, 11:20 AM	#7
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Amazing isn't it.... It is a filmmaking tool... A figure in that price is higher to make back their time and investment. Imagine a big company that has massive resources and tons of r&d cash flow/capital. They could do this same camera at a much much lower cost. There is not a camera that can do 10bit at 528 mega bit data stream any where near this price. There are so many companies out there that can build systems and intergrate technology together that are a thousand + times bigger then the Drake makers. If this is just the start point of smaller camera makers, then we are going to see some amazing tools/gear over time. I read about a group of russian guys that are making a DSLR Rebel 300d shoot video off the cmos. If that is possible, then my god where is all this going to go.. We are all going to have little Imax camera's in our pockets at some point. I have seen some of this footage from the DRAKE on my 50" Sony HD and it's amazing quality even though the clips were low res HD compared to the originals. That's amazing............ <<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Oops, I just looked at the second link! Isn't that damn good for the quality compared to everything else we're talking about? Those clips are downcoverted and still look HD to me on my 23" Cinema display. The camera package you get from the first look is pretty awesome...includes the matte box! It looks like another $5-10k and you got yourself an awesome HD setup! -->>>

April 11th, 2005, 01:45 PM	#9
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Christopher... That's right, made by novices. Now if that's what a group of novices can do then holy *^&% wait tell the other entrepreneurs types that eat , drink and breath making technology get in this game. With their OEM electronics catalogs of CCDs, CMOS censors, semi-conducters , AD DA converters etc etc these people will piece together amazing cameras. What's great is they don't even have to worry about making lenses, you just machine the right mount. Memory systems are plenty for choice. Awesome simply awesome what's to coming in the near future. Like I said there are these russian engineers / filmmakers that are modifying a Digital rebel and it's Cmos to shoot HD. They asked me for some info. I can't wait to see their results. The implications of something like this is scary in the greatest way. I guess if you can get 4:4:4 12bit+ out of a modified DVX100A anything is almost possible. <<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : This Drake camera is made by some novices who are (what looks like to me) a start up company. That's amazing! If that doesn't make the big corps work harder I don't know what will. I can't wait to see these generations of cameras coming up. Personally, I believe the "HD" thing is almost solved...meaning, we're there and it can only get better and better. -->>>

April 11th, 2005, 01:57 PM	#10
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol This must be a result of all the "nano" technology. It's been around a few years now, so it's about time it made its way into cameras. I'm kind of shocked (in a good way) at the way things have progressed in the past 3 years. I was there in 1997 when the first HDTV broadcasts started and they looked like crap...and I mean really bad crap. Pixelated so bad that you couldn't even make out an image most of the time. That remained the same until about 3 years ago when things really opened up...the pipes or maybe the engineers finally "got it". I do remember way back then in 1997 the Chief Engineer at the station I worked at said, "It's a dirty little secret, but none of this stuff is really going to work for about 10 more years. It will definately be there beforehand, but overall it will take 8-10 years for everyone to get it right." Here we are 8 years later and I think we can all agree it's starting to come together on all fronts. The big corps are making amazing HD cameras, and also they're making them for smaller people like us. They're getting ready to release HD-DVD's in 2005....HD sets are less than $500 now. The channels are opening up...I just got the "WB" in HD this week on my Comcast cable. Oh, don't forget HD cell phones! He was right.....in my opinion, the general public is ready for HD now. The Internet has truly opened the flood gates for the new "tech" savvy generations. The older crowds don't need to know a thing...everything is basically the same for them. They can buy an HDTV set and not have to understand a thing beyond getting an HD hookup at home or using Sattelite, oh...and a few more buttons on the remote...that's all. So, we're a worldwide HD human race now. What's next? lol __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

April 11th, 2005, 02:27 PM	#11
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	What HD TV's are under $500? I'm ready to buy one in that case! __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 11th, 2005, 02:58 PM	#12
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	They're everywhere! I did a search for "HDTV for $500" - this is what I got: http://www.dealtime.com/xPP-Flat_Panel_Televisions-~S-213~OR-0~PG-5 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000A2UAW/ref=ase_dealtime-ce-feed-20/104-8193700-0010351?v=glance&s=electronics __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

April 11th, 2005, 03:28 PM	#13
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	>>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<< They're announcing their final product at NAB.

April 11th, 2005, 04:57 PM	#14
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Check out this Link. NAB booth info http://reel-stream.com/ and this link http://reel-stream.com/main. It's very much alive and very real............. <<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : >>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<< They're announcing their final product at NAB. -->>>

April 11th, 2005, 05:07 PM	#15
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Here is a 36bit HD frame capture from the DVX100A http://www.orocomo.com/images/Reel-Stream/36bit_HD.tif and another http://reel-stream.com/img3/cap11_HD.tif and some specs Color precision: 24bit, 30bit, 36bit Sampling modes: Full-bandwidth RGB, 4:4:4 YUV, 4:4:2 YUV, 4:2:4 YUV, 4:2:2 YUV, 4:2:0 YUV, 4:0:2 YUV, 4:1:1 YUV Frame size: 1280x720 (16:9 with anamorphic adapter), 1124x720(NTSC pixels, full optical frame), 770x492(NTSC pixels), 720x480(NTSC pixels), others user-defined A graph show the how to: http://reel-stream.com/andromeda_graphic.php <<<-- Originally posted by Michael Pappas : Check out this Link. NAB booth info http://reel-stream.com/ and this link http://reel-stream.com/main. It's very much alive and very real............. <<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : >>Oh yeah, what the heck is the latest on that 4:4:4 DVX100A deal? I thought that was suppose to be the second coming?!! lol<< They're announcing their final product at NAB. -->>> -->>>