Dead Pixel at DVinfo.net

August 9th, 2002, 01:20 PM

Anyone else have a dead pixel on their LCD for their GL2. This really pissed me off when i first turned it on. What is the quality control measure for this, is it returnable, or does it not fall under the requirements for deficiency. I have to shoot a movie this week, so I would have to return it after that time.

Jeff Donald · August 9th, 2002, 04:02 PM

There is a mfg. tolerance for LCD and CCD. It of course falls under their quality control and is covered under their warranty terms. If the dead pixel is just on the LCD screen it is only anoying, not really affecting the picture. However, if the pixel is on the CCD it creates a grey spot where the data should be. They guarantee something like 99.97% pixels. This translates to around 20 dead pixels before it qualifies as defective. Sometimes the dead pixels can be masked or mapped out. A call to Canon may be in order to check what can be done.

Jeff

Don Palomaki · August 10th, 2002, 06:14 AM

My understanding is that there should be no visible hot /dead pixels on the CCDs at 0 dB gain.

The 99.97% applies to the LCD and view finder.

George Gerez · August 10th, 2002, 09:10 AM

I have seen alot of posts about the GL1 and now the first GL2 Hotpixel problem. I have notice that I never see other people with the same problem using Sony, JVC, or other cameras.

So it seems like canon biggest problem is hotpixels, in the CCD

Does anyone have any comments?

August 10th, 2002, 09:29 AM

The Dead Pixel I have is strickly in the LCD not in on the CCD, thank god. Its more annoying than anything. I was just wondering if the one pixel was a cause or reason for me to return. Thanks for the help everyone.

Barry Goyette · August 10th, 2002, 12:14 PM

George

I'm not sure that dead pixels are a "canon" only problem. One of the reasons that we probably see more posts relative to this issue, is that this site is predominately frequented by canon users...I would be highly surprised if canon even makes the LCD screen used in its cameras (just like it doesn't make the chips), and most likely it is the same screen that is used on a few other makers cameras as well. LCD screens in the computer industry are known for this problem as well. If it's a problem for anyone, my guess is the best bet is to call canon technical support...they probably have a policy regarding how they deal with it.

For what it's worth, my powerbook's got a dead pixel, and so does the EVF on my xl1s, my 18 inch apple studio display is perfect........wait a minute.........whew.... that scared me.....it's just a period.

Barry

Frank Granovski · August 13th, 2002, 03:13 AM

I've never had a dead CCD pixel, nor a dead one in the viewfinder nor the LCD. I own JVC and Panasonic cams. I've also used a number of other cams, including a GL1, sometimes for 100s of hours, and have never yet seen a dead pixel. However, if I had a dead CCD pixel on one of my cams, I'd get it "fixed," or trash it---if the "fix" costs too much.

Chris Hurd · August 13th, 2002, 05:57 AM

A dead pixel in the LCD panel is not considered to be a warranty or return/repair issue. As Jeff points out, the guarantee is for 99.97% of the LCD pixeld to be operational, allowing for roughly 20 dead pixels in the display. At least it's not in the CCD. If I were in your position, I'd contact the dealer and inquire about an exchange. Good luck,

Aaron Nanto · September 24th, 2002, 09:51 AM

I just bought a GL2 from a very good online retailer, and I too have one dead pixel on my LCD. It's slightly off-center and to the bottom (and is only viewable when I have a dark BG) but by the responses in this thread, it seems that probably nothing can be done until it really becomes an issue.

Jason D. Moore · September 25th, 2002, 02:35 PM

I've got a dead pixel on the CCD of my ZR30MC... luckily it's not a GL2 or XL1s because my warranty is already up. A friend of mine has one on his Elura 2, and I've seen lots of posts from people with the same problems with their GL1/XL1S.. is this a big problem? Or does it just seem that way because there's a post from 10 people with this problem (out of the 1,000s that have the cameras).. ?

moore

Jeff Donald · September 25th, 2002, 02:51 PM

Don't confuse dead pixels on CCD (imaging device or chip) with dead pixels on the LCD viewing screen. While dead pixels are annoying on the viewing screen they in no way affect the recorded image. Most of the above posts are referring to the LCD, not the CCD.

Jeff

George Gerez · September 25th, 2002, 03:36 PM

Well I am talking about Dead Pixels on the CCD. It seems to me that Canon has issues with dead pixels on the CCD. Specially the GL1. (source: from reading this forum)

The reason I do not mention LCD is because they clearly state 99.97% can be good at a given time. meaning about up to 20 pixels can be dead on the LCD before the consider it an issue.

(If I am wrong please correct me.)

Jeff Donald · September 25th, 2002, 03:46 PM

George,

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to moore511, who asked about lots of posts for dead pixels. But in answer to your question I don't think it is a Canon only problem. After all the chips are made by Panasonic and I don't see any more Canon complaints of dead pixels than Panasonics. However, this started as a Canon site and the majority of the members here are Canon owners. it's only logical that there are more complaints about Canon. It's what we shoot with.

Jeff

Jason D. Moore · September 25th, 2002, 04:35 PM

Jeff,

I'm aware of the differences between LCD and CCD and I was referring to the problems with the CCD. Another messageboard that I frequent has had a couple threads with multiple posts about dead pixels on the actual CCD, and as I said, the camera I have, and my friend's both have dead pixels on the CCD (not the LCD screen), that show up on the footage. My question was for people that have more experience in the "industry" and more experience with other cameras, as my knowledge is limited to personal experience (limited to the two cameras with bad pixels), and from reading the board which is primarily Canon users. That's why I was asking if this was a big problem for people using Canon cameras, or a problem with all cameras as the CCDs are most likely made by some third party... a few posts on a board, hardly represents the thousands of Canon users.. so is this a bigger issue? Or is it limited to the 10-20 people who have posted about their CCD problems.

Moore

Chris Hurd · September 25th, 2002, 05:54 PM

Well, it's kind of like how nobody calls the cops to say they're having a good day. You're only going to hear about the problems.

A bad pixel on the LCD screen may be mildly annoying, but it's not considered a warranty issue. As pointed out previously, if you have six or seven bad pixels on the screen, the LCD is still performing at 99.97% which is considered highly acceptable.

A bad pixel in the CCD block can be masked out by a service facility. The sooner you get it done, the better, especially if the camera is still under warranty.

That's pretty much how it breaks down -- if you have a bad pixel in the CCD block, then send it in and get it fixed. Nothing wrong with conducting an online survey of who has an issue and who doesn't, but it's pretty much pointless because that's not going to change anything. The main thing is to become proactive and quickly get your camera in for service and get the problem resolved, if it is indeed in the CCD block and not the LCD display. If you recently purchased the camera, then get your dealer involved and see if the'll help you. But by all means do something about it. Hope this helps,

August 9th, 2002, 01:20 PM	#1
normbaits Posts: n/a	Dead Pixel Anyone else have a dead pixel on their LCD for their GL2. This really pissed me off when i first turned it on. What is the quality control measure for this, is it returnable, or does it not fall under the requirements for deficiency. I have to shoot a movie this week, so I would have to return it after that time.

August 10th, 2002, 09:10 AM	#4
George Gerez Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 49	I have seen alot of posts about the GL1 and now the first GL2 Hotpixel problem. I have notice that I never see other people with the same problem using Sony, JVC, or other cameras. So it seems like canon biggest problem is hotpixels, in the CCD Does anyone have any comments? __________________ George Gerez Tamarac, FL (Broward County) (954)821-3866 gerez@bellsouth.net --- PC Based editor: Adobe Premier Pro, Canopus DV Storm Pro. SONY VX2000, Panasonic DVX100a

August 13th, 2002, 05:57 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	A dead pixel in the LCD panel is not considered to be a warranty or return/repair issue. As Jeff points out, the guarantee is for 99.97% of the LCD pixeld to be operational, allowing for roughly 20 dead pixels in the display. At least it's not in the CCD. If I were in your position, I'd contact the dealer and inquire about an exchange. Good luck, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 24th, 2002, 09:51 AM	#9
Aaron Nanto Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 46	I just bought a GL2 from a very good online retailer, and I too have one dead pixel on my LCD. It's slightly off-center and to the bottom (and is only viewable when I have a dark BG) but by the responses in this thread, it seems that probably nothing can be done until it really becomes an issue. __________________ Aaron Nanto \| Photo+Cinema www.aaronnanto.com

September 25th, 2002, 02:35 PM	#10
Jason D. Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: california Posts: 39	dead pixel on CCD I've got a dead pixel on the CCD of my ZR30MC... luckily it's not a GL2 or XL1s because my warranty is already up. A friend of mine has one on his Elura 2, and I've seen lots of posts from people with the same problems with their GL1/XL1S.. is this a big problem? Or does it just seem that way because there's a post from 10 people with this problem (out of the 1,000s that have the cameras).. ? moore

August 9th, 2002, 04:02 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	There is a mfg. tolerance for LCD and CCD. It of course falls under their quality control and is covered under their warranty terms. If the dead pixel is just on the LCD screen it is only anoying, not really affecting the picture. However, if the pixel is on the CCD it creates a grey spot where the data should be. They guarantee something like 99.97% pixels. This translates to around 20 dead pixels before it qualifies as defective. Sometimes the dead pixels can be masked or mapped out. A call to Canon may be in order to check what can be done. Jeff

August 10th, 2002, 06:14 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	My understanding is that there should be no visible hot /dead pixels on the CCDs at 0 dB gain. The 99.97% applies to the LCD and view finder.

August 10th, 2002, 09:29 AM	#5
normbaits Posts: n/a	The Dead Pixel I have is strickly in the LCD not in on the CCD, thank god. Its more annoying than anything. I was just wondering if the one pixel was a cause or reason for me to return. Thanks for the help everyone.

August 10th, 2002, 12:14 PM	#6
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	George I'm not sure that dead pixels are a "canon" only problem. One of the reasons that we probably see more posts relative to this issue, is that this site is predominately frequented by canon users...I would be highly surprised if canon even makes the LCD screen used in its cameras (just like it doesn't make the chips), and most likely it is the same screen that is used on a few other makers cameras as well. LCD screens in the computer industry are known for this problem as well. If it's a problem for anyone, my guess is the best bet is to call canon technical support...they probably have a policy regarding how they deal with it. For what it's worth, my powerbook's got a dead pixel, and so does the EVF on my xl1s, my 18 inch apple studio display is perfect........wait a minute.........whew.... that scared me.....it's just a period. Barry

August 13th, 2002, 03:13 AM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I've never had a dead CCD pixel, nor a dead one in the viewfinder nor the LCD. I own JVC and Panasonic cams. I've also used a number of other cams, including a GL1, sometimes for 100s of hours, and have never yet seen a dead pixel. However, if I had a dead CCD pixel on one of my cams, I'd get it "fixed," or trash it---if the "fix" costs too much.

September 25th, 2002, 02:51 PM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Don't confuse dead pixels on CCD (imaging device or chip) with dead pixels on the LCD viewing screen. While dead pixels are annoying on the viewing screen they in no way affect the recorded image. Most of the above posts are referring to the LCD, not the CCD. Jeff

September 25th, 2002, 03:36 PM	#12
George Gerez Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 49	Well I am talking about Dead Pixels on the CCD. It seems to me that Canon has issues with dead pixels on the CCD. Specially the GL1. (source: from reading this forum) The reason I do not mention LCD is because they clearly state 99.97% can be good at a given time. meaning about up to 20 pixels can be dead on the LCD before the consider it an issue. (If I am wrong please correct me.) __________________ George Gerez Tamarac, FL (Broward County) (954)821-3866 gerez@bellsouth.net --- PC Based editor: Adobe Premier Pro, Canopus DV Storm Pro. SONY VX2000, Panasonic DVX100a

September 25th, 2002, 03:46 PM	#13
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	George, Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to moore511, who asked about lots of posts for dead pixels. But in answer to your question I don't think it is a Canon only problem. After all the chips are made by Panasonic and I don't see any more Canon complaints of dead pixels than Panasonics. However, this started as a Canon site and the majority of the members here are Canon owners. it's only logical that there are more complaints about Canon. It's what we shoot with. Jeff

September 25th, 2002, 04:35 PM	#14
Jason D. Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: california Posts: 39	CCDs, not LCDs Jeff, I'm aware of the differences between LCD and CCD and I was referring to the problems with the CCD. Another messageboard that I frequent has had a couple threads with multiple posts about dead pixels on the actual CCD, and as I said, the camera I have, and my friend's both have dead pixels on the CCD (not the LCD screen), that show up on the footage. My question was for people that have more experience in the "industry" and more experience with other cameras, as my knowledge is limited to personal experience (limited to the two cameras with bad pixels), and from reading the board which is primarily Canon users. That's why I was asking if this was a big problem for people using Canon cameras, or a problem with all cameras as the CCDs are most likely made by some third party... a few posts on a board, hardly represents the thousands of Canon users.. so is this a bigger issue? Or is it limited to the 10-20 people who have posted about their CCD problems. Moore

September 25th, 2002, 05:54 PM	#15
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Well, it's kind of like how nobody calls the cops to say they're having a good day. You're only going to hear about the problems. A bad pixel on the LCD screen may be mildly annoying, but it's not considered a warranty issue. As pointed out previously, if you have six or seven bad pixels on the screen, the LCD is still performing at 99.97% which is considered highly acceptable. A bad pixel in the CCD block can be masked out by a service facility. The sooner you get it done, the better, especially if the camera is still under warranty. That's pretty much how it breaks down -- if you have a bad pixel in the CCD block, then send it in and get it fixed. Nothing wrong with conducting an online survey of who has an issue and who doesn't, but it's pretty much pointless because that's not going to change anything. The main thing is to become proactive and quickly get your camera in for service and get the problem resolved, if it is indeed in the CCD block and not the LCD display. If you recently purchased the camera, then get your dealer involved and see if the'll help you. But by all means do something about it. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!