HDMI out to laptop ! at DVinfo.net

John Benton · November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...rd_at_dv_expo/

So Here it is, HDMI into a Laptop, correct.
Does the HDMI out of the Vu1 bypass the HDV compression?
CAN WE GET LOSSLESS (UN)COMPRESSED OUT OF THE SONY V1 into a loaptop running Cineform or Sheer Lossless compression?

Is that what I am hearing?

"CalDigit says that, at DV Expo in Los Angeles, Nov. 16, Dan May, president of Blackmagic Design will demonstrate the Blackmagic Design Intensity video capture card and the CalDigit S2VR HD capturing uncompressed footage directly from a HDV camcorder via HDMI. He’ll demonstrate the use of the new Intensity card at 4:15 p.m. in Room #301A.??CalDigit will be showing the line of low cost S2VR SATA II 3Gb/s RAID products and PCIe (all of which are Mac Pro compatible) and PCIx controller cards, as well as the brand new CalDigit FASTA-1ex SATA II to ExpressCard/34 for MacBook Pro. This card enables you to capture, develop, edit and create content in almost any environment on the go, when using Apple’s new MacBook Pro. ?"

Wes Vasher · November 13th, 2006, 04:48 PM

The Intensity is a PCIe card so you'll need a desktop. That article mentions the laptop only in regards to an eSata express card.

You should be able to get 4:2:2 uncompressed from the V1's HDMI port using Intensity which is pre-MPEG2 compression. I've seen a sample from an HC3 and it's pretty dang nice. Where there were nasty compression artifacts from the HDV files there was only silky smooth pixels in the Intensity capture.

Peter Ferling · November 13th, 2006, 06:12 PM

Yup. I plan on getting one. I also corresponded with BM support about component connections, as the HC1 lacks HDMI, and was told that it's possible using an adaptor, and that component has the advantage in regards to long cable runs. HDMI still has the advantage being all digital, and 5.1 surround sound being embedded in the signal.

John Benton · November 13th, 2006, 11:21 PM

I was drooling over a portable alternative,
not yet...
(whoever does this first, so you can choose Cineform/sheer lossless compression is gonna make a killing)

Tony Tremble · November 14th, 2006, 07:35 AM

I know for a fact that one capture card manufacturer is looking into laptop expresscard HDMI capture. I cannot say anymore without revealing my source.

TT

John Benton · November 14th, 2006, 08:27 AM

I really hope so !
With all these (pro)sumer Canon HD-SDI & Sony HDMI cameras you would assume...

Marcus Marchesseault · November 14th, 2006, 11:06 PM

Who needs a laptop solution? I have 110 Amphours of AGM lead-acid batteries and a power inverter! Movie studio on a handtruck...

Ray Bell · November 15th, 2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Who needs a laptop solution? I have 110 Amphours of AGM lead-acid batteries and a power inverter! Movie studio on a handtruck...

ha,ha... history repeating itself... brings back memories when you had to handtruck the VCR recorder around hooked up to the Camera...

John Benton · November 15th, 2006, 10:07 AM

http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html

Alex Huppenthal · November 22nd, 2006, 11:18 PM

What sort of storage requirements will you meet when recording direct HDMI? and has anyone worked with another camera that has HDMI out? If so, I'd be curious if the HDMI raw output really beats that camera's recorded output. it should, shouldn't it? Can this be leading to a break through recorder with something professional akin to the consumer/iPod H.264 $79 on the fly hardware compressor mentioned here?

http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/periph...ing-215980.php

oh, please, oh please... :-)

Ray Bell · November 23rd, 2006, 06:40 AM

What Sony should have done is put two connections on the HDR60 ...

one connection of firewire, so it could be used with other cam's
and another connection of HDMI, so it could pull the video off of Sony's
HDMI equiped cam's...

Now that would have blown the competition out of the water...

maybe there's still hope, someone come up with a HDMI to firewire convertion
cable....

Kristin Stewart · November 23rd, 2006, 07:13 AM

Yes Ray, I'm 100% with you... The problem is that Sony in this case wouldn't sell any XDCCAM models anymore... The reason why you don't have yet an easy and cheap way to record HD uncompressed is to protect their more expansive and professional lines...

For Alex, here's some info about the storage (found on the Blackmagic site):

525 NTSC uncompressed;
8 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 27 MB per/sec, or 94 GB per/hr.

625 PAL uncompressed;
8 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 26 MB per/sec, or 93 GB per/hr.

720p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 105 MB per/sec, or 370 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 140 MB per/sec, or 494 GB per/hr.

1080i and 1080p HDTV uncompressed;
8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 95 MB per/sec, or 334 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 127 MB per/sec, or 445 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 99 MB per/sec, or 348 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 132 MB per/sec, or 463 GB per/hr.

8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 119 MB per/sec, or 417 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 158 MB per/sec, or 556 GB per/hr.

1080i and 1080p HDTV RGB (4:4:4) uncompressed;
10 bit @ 1280 x 720p @ 60fps = 211 per/sec, or 742 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24PsF = 190 per/sec, or 667 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 50i = 198 per/sec, or 695 GB per/hr.
10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 60i = 237 per/sec, or 834 GB per/hr.

I read in an other post that this camera outputs 4:2:2 1440x1080 through HDMI. Spot, are you sure of this ? Not 1920x1080 ? Apparently the captors deliver this size.

Tony Tremble · November 23rd, 2006, 07:41 AM

I'm not sure how many people would capture uncompressed even if possible as the amount of data to store (and more importantly backup) would get pretty difficult to work with.

A pragmatic solution would be to capture to a high quality intermediate codec. For the price of a laptop with HDMI Expresscard34, FW 800 storage and cineformesque codec a mini wafian recorder would be created.

I wouldn't want to march it round all the time but in a studio environment it would be distinctly useful. I'd have one right away.

TT

Kristin Stewart · November 23rd, 2006, 08:35 AM

The Intensity card seems to allow you to capture with their new JPEG codec. I tried to convert some files with this codec, they seemed a little soft, probably my fault... Another solution would be to capture uncompressed and then to convert to the Avid DNxHD codec, which is great.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · November 23rd, 2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristin Stewart

I read in an other post that this camera outputs 4:2:2 1440x1080 through HDMI. Spot, are you sure of this ? Not 1920x1080 ? Apparently the captors deliver this size.

Re-read my post more carefully; the camera takes the 1440x1080 image and resizes it to 1920x1080 on output. The source for HDMI is after DSP, pre compressor. In other words, HDMI is 1920x1080 out, but the source for it is converted back up to 1920 after being processed at 1440.

Additionally, HDMI to firewire is much more than just a cable. It's a full-on conversion process, and the question then becomes "what are you sending down the Firewire/iLink/1394 cable? If it's mpeg, the best you can hope for is a better encoder/bitrate. Either way, it's also a format conversion from 1920 x 1080, 4:2:2 uncompressed to some other format going down firewire vs being converted in a relatively large box. Miranda, BMD, Convergent Design have all announced converters, but they're not "small."

November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM	#1
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	HDMI out to laptop ! http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...rd_at_dv_expo/ So Here it is, HDMI into a Laptop, correct. Does the HDMI out of the Vu1 bypass the HDV compression? CAN WE GET LOSSLESS (UN)COMPRESSED OUT OF THE SONY V1 into a loaptop running Cineform or Sheer Lossless compression? Is that what I am hearing? "CalDigit says that, at DV Expo in Los Angeles, Nov. 16, Dan May, president of Blackmagic Design will demonstrate the Blackmagic Design Intensity video capture card and the CalDigit S2VR HD capturing uncompressed footage directly from a HDV camcorder via HDMI. He’ll demonstrate the use of the new Intensity card at 4:15 p.m. in Room #301A.??CalDigit will be showing the line of low cost S2VR SATA II 3Gb/s RAID products and PCIe (all of which are Mac Pro compatible) and PCIx controller cards, as well as the brand new CalDigit FASTA-1ex SATA II to ExpressCard/34 for MacBook Pro. This card enables you to capture, develop, edit and create content in almost any environment on the go, when using Apple’s new MacBook Pro. ?"

November 13th, 2006, 04:48 PM	#2
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	The Intensity is a PCIe card so you'll need a desktop. That article mentions the laptop only in regards to an eSata express card. You should be able to get 4:2:2 uncompressed from the V1's HDMI port using Intensity which is pre-MPEG2 compression. I've seen a sample from an HC3 and it's pretty dang nice. Where there were nasty compression artifacts from the HDV files there was only silky smooth pixels in the Intensity capture.

November 13th, 2006, 06:12 PM	#3
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Yup. I plan on getting one. I also corresponded with BM support about component connections, as the HC1 lacks HDMI, and was told that it's possible using an adaptor, and that component has the advantage in regards to long cable runs. HDMI still has the advantage being all digital, and 5.1 surround sound being embedded in the signal.

November 13th, 2006, 11:21 PM	#4
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	I was drooling over a portable alternative, not yet... (whoever does this first, so you can choose Cineform/sheer lossless compression is gonna make a killing)

November 14th, 2006, 07:35 AM	#5
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	I know for a fact that one capture card manufacturer is looking into laptop expresscard HDMI capture. I cannot say anymore without revealing my source. TT

November 14th, 2006, 08:27 AM	#6
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	I really hope so ! With all these (pro)sumer Canon HD-SDI & Sony HDMI cameras you would assume...

November 14th, 2006, 11:06 PM	#7
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Who needs a laptop solution? I have 110 Amphours of AGM lead-acid batteries and a power inverter! Movie studio on a handtruck...

November 15th, 2006, 10:07 AM	#9
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html

November 22nd, 2006, 11:18 PM	#10
Alex Huppenthal Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Aspen, Colorado Posts: 30	What sort of storage requirements will you meet when recording direct HDMI? and has anyone worked with another camera that has HDMI out? If so, I'd be curious if the HDMI raw output really beats that camera's recorded output. it should, shouldn't it? Can this be leading to a break through recorder with something professional akin to the consumer/iPod H.264 $79 on the fly hardware compressor mentioned here? http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/periph...ing-215980.php oh, please, oh please... :-)

November 23rd, 2006, 06:40 AM	#11
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	What Sony should have done is put two connections on the HDR60 ... one connection of firewire, so it could be used with other cam's and another connection of HDMI, so it could pull the video off of Sony's HDMI equiped cam's... Now that would have blown the competition out of the water... maybe there's still hope, someone come up with a HDMI to firewire convertion cable....

November 23rd, 2006, 07:13 AM	#12
Kristin Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Paris, France Posts: 75	Yes Ray, I'm 100% with you... The problem is that Sony in this case wouldn't sell any XDCCAM models anymore... The reason why you don't have yet an easy and cheap way to record HD uncompressed is to protect their more expansive and professional lines... For Alex, here's some info about the storage (found on the Blackmagic site): 525 NTSC uncompressed; 8 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 720 x 486 @ 29.97fps = 27 MB per/sec, or 94 GB per/hr. 625 PAL uncompressed; 8 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 20 MB per/sec, or 70 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 720 x 576 @ 25fps = 26 MB per/sec, or 93 GB per/hr. 720p HDTV uncompressed; 8 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 105 MB per/sec, or 370 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 140 MB per/sec, or 494 GB per/hr. 1080i and 1080p HDTV uncompressed; 8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 95 MB per/sec, or 334 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24fps = 127 MB per/sec, or 445 GB per/hr. 8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 99 MB per/sec, or 348 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps = 132 MB per/sec, or 463 GB per/hr. 8 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 119 MB per/sec, or 417 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 29.97fps = 158 MB per/sec, or 556 GB per/hr. 1080i and 1080p HDTV RGB (4:4:4) uncompressed; 10 bit @ 1280 x 720p @ 60fps = 211 per/sec, or 742 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 24PsF = 190 per/sec, or 667 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 50i = 198 per/sec, or 695 GB per/hr. 10 bit @ 1920 x 1080 @ 60i = 237 per/sec, or 834 GB per/hr. I read in an other post that this camera outputs 4:2:2 1440x1080 through HDMI. Spot, are you sure of this ? Not 1920x1080 ? Apparently the captors deliver this size.

November 23rd, 2006, 07:41 AM	#13
Tony Tremble Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 451	I'm not sure how many people would capture uncompressed even if possible as the amount of data to store (and more importantly backup) would get pretty difficult to work with. A pragmatic solution would be to capture to a high quality intermediate codec. For the price of a laptop with HDMI Expresscard34, FW 800 storage and cineformesque codec a mini wafian recorder would be created. I wouldn't want to march it round all the time but in a studio environment it would be distinctly useful. I'd have one right away. TT

November 23rd, 2006, 08:35 AM	#14
Kristin Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Paris, France Posts: 75	The Intensity card seems to allow you to capture with their new JPEG codec. I tried to convert some files with this codec, they seemed a little soft, probably my fault... Another solution would be to capture uncompressed and then to convert to the Avid DNxHD codec, which is great.