v-1 & green screen at DVinfo.net

Ram Shani · February 25th, 2007, 01:11 PM

hi

i plan to shoot music video with the v-1

we plan to shoot on green screen with camera moves
i understand that it can put out 4:2:2 but only threw HDMI and capture on laptop
but my Q is it good with HDV say as digibeta?
or i better go with 790 or 950
i am lost with all the tech details
need your advice

David Simpson · February 25th, 2007, 02:35 PM

Several people are interested in posting comparative footage with examples of using a 4:2:2 color space with uncompressed HD, and the various codecs that are out there such as the one included with the Intensity card, sheer and Cinestream.

We just need some additional people to pitch in some time and equipment so that we can do a robust analysis.

If you are in NYC or Brooklyn and have a macpro, FX7/V1, Aja cinestream, 10 bit enabled HD card, or 4:4:4 color space camera, and are interested in being part of this comparrison, please contact me at my email address.

It would be nice to have some footage for people to look at so that they can see examples of what quality is obtainable using a 4:2:2 color space and several of the HDMI enabled video cameras (V1, FX7, HCR3/7).

Thanks,

David Simpson · February 25th, 2007, 02:36 PM

The equipment we have so far:
Disk array
Intensity card
HC3 camera
PC
Lighting
Green Screen
Studio for testing

What we need:
FX7 or V1
Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0
Mac Pro
Cineform
Sheer codec

It would also be great to have a Canon XH G1 for comparison too

Marcus Marchesseault · February 25th, 2007, 06:52 PM

"but my Q is it good with HDV say as digibeta?"

I think the correct answer is that any HD format should equal or surpass an SD format as long as proper shooting techniques are observed and good compositing software is used. There is so much more information in an HD stream that even 4:2:0 HDV has about the same color data as 4:2:2 SD and far greater luminance data. Good software will take both data types into consideration when performing a chromakey which gives HDV an advantage. Since a greenscreen has so much repetetive data, there should be very limited (if any) compression artifacts on your subject.

I look forward to seeing results from an uncompressed shoot.

Ram Shani · February 26th, 2007, 03:57 AM

hi

thanks for the replays but i think i miss understood

i can shoot only HDV or digital beta

what is a good software foe keying. AE?
is the v-1 good for this mission?
i love the v-1 i shoot 2 music video with this camera and with my letus35fe&canon lenses and the results are great!!!!
for me it was the same as pro35 with zeiss supper speeds with Sony 790
even with 6-9db gain its sharp and when i shoot against white screen i had no problems with grain or any thing its pic is by far more good the the z-1.

Marcus Marchesseault · February 26th, 2007, 06:12 AM

The 790 has advantages over the V1 with a bigger lens and larger chips. The V1 has the advantage of higher resolution. Considering you had such success using the V1, I think you might try some tests using it with your keying software. After Effects is well-known for chromakey and there are even software packages dedicated for the purpose. I've been told Ultra from seriousmagic.com is good and their example videos are impressive.

The camera operator is a very important part of the process and you like the V1. Select the tool which you are most comfortable using unless you know of a specific reason to switch.

Michael Frkovich · February 26th, 2007, 03:21 PM

When people get involved in green screen work, the first question i would
ask is. How involved are you now and how involved do you eventually want
to be. The reason i say this is because lf you want to get seriously involved
then you should build your system so it can grow. The first thing i would invest in is some way of capturing at higher rates. An AJA kona card will
allow just about any type you want. Starting from here you can grow to any
camera you wish or add a raid in the future. If you have an HDV camera
you can capture and down rez to 10 bit uncompressed all at once. I have
found that you get a better key doing it this way verses working in HDV
and then down converting it later. This is just my opinion but the point is
what ever you work in the better color space, the better the key will be. HD
4:2:2 uncompressed will be even better. You will have to spend more on
equipment to get there but your kona card will still be there and you can
use it now. From what i see there is some really nice keying software out
there now. The one i would recomend is Ultimatte Advantedge. It's quite
expensive but amazing.

February 25th, 2007, 01:11 PM	#1
Ram Shani Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: tel aviv israel Posts: 107	v-1 & green screen hi i plan to shoot music video with the v-1 we plan to shoot on green screen with camera moves i understand that it can put out 4:2:2 but only threw HDMI and capture on laptop but my Q is it good with HDV say as digibeta? or i better go with 790 or 950 i am lost with all the tech details need your advice

February 25th, 2007, 02:35 PM	#2
David Simpson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 17	Testing 4:2:2 HDMI quality V1 Several people are interested in posting comparative footage with examples of using a 4:2:2 color space with uncompressed HD, and the various codecs that are out there such as the one included with the Intensity card, sheer and Cinestream. We just need some additional people to pitch in some time and equipment so that we can do a robust analysis. If you are in NYC or Brooklyn and have a macpro, FX7/V1, Aja cinestream, 10 bit enabled HD card, or 4:4:4 color space camera, and are interested in being part of this comparrison, please contact me at my email address. It would be nice to have some footage for people to look at so that they can see examples of what quality is obtainable using a 4:2:2 color space and several of the HDMI enabled video cameras (V1, FX7, HCR3/7). Thanks,

February 25th, 2007, 02:36 PM	#3
David Simpson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 17	V1 green screen The equipment we have so far: Disk array Intensity card HC3 camera PC Lighting Green Screen Studio for testing What we need: FX7 or V1 Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 Mac Pro Cineform Sheer codec It would also be great to have a Canon XH G1 for comparison too Last edited by David Simpson; February 25th, 2007 at 03:12 PM.

February 25th, 2007, 06:52 PM	#4
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"but my Q is it good with HDV say as digibeta?" I think the correct answer is that any HD format should equal or surpass an SD format as long as proper shooting techniques are observed and good compositing software is used. There is so much more information in an HD stream that even 4:2:0 HDV has about the same color data as 4:2:2 SD and far greater luminance data. Good software will take both data types into consideration when performing a chromakey which gives HDV an advantage. Since a greenscreen has so much repetetive data, there should be very limited (if any) compression artifacts on your subject. I look forward to seeing results from an uncompressed shoot. Last edited by Marcus Marchesseault; February 26th, 2007 at 03:29 AM.

February 26th, 2007, 03:57 AM	#5
Ram Shani Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: tel aviv israel Posts: 107	hi thanks for the replays but i think i miss understood i can shoot only HDV or digital beta what is a good software foe keying. AE? is the v-1 good for this mission? i love the v-1 i shoot 2 music video with this camera and with my letus35fe&canon lenses and the results are great!!!! for me it was the same as pro35 with zeiss supper speeds with Sony 790 even with 6-9db gain its sharp and when i shoot against white screen i had no problems with grain or any thing its pic is by far more good the the z-1.

February 26th, 2007, 06:12 AM	#6
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	The 790 has advantages over the V1 with a bigger lens and larger chips. The V1 has the advantage of higher resolution. Considering you had such success using the V1, I think you might try some tests using it with your keying software. After Effects is well-known for chromakey and there are even software packages dedicated for the purpose. I've been told Ultra from seriousmagic.com is good and their example videos are impressive. The camera operator is a very important part of the process and you like the V1. Select the tool which you are most comfortable using unless you know of a specific reason to switch.

February 26th, 2007, 03:21 PM	#7
Michael Frkovich New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin USA Posts: 23	When people get involved in green screen work, the first question i would ask is. How involved are you now and how involved do you eventually want to be. The reason i say this is because lf you want to get seriously involved then you should build your system so it can grow. The first thing i would invest in is some way of capturing at higher rates. An AJA kona card will allow just about any type you want. Starting from here you can grow to any camera you wish or add a raid in the future. If you have an HDV camera you can capture and down rez to 10 bit uncompressed all at once. I have found that you get a better key doing it this way verses working in HDV and then down converting it later. This is just my opinion but the point is what ever you work in the better color space, the better the key will be. HD 4:2:2 uncompressed will be even better. You will have to spend more on equipment to get there but your kona card will still be there and you can use it now. From what i see there is some really nice keying software out there now. The one i would recomend is Ultimatte Advantedge. It's quite expensive but amazing.