24f, 30f, 60i modes of XL-H1 all work fine in Sony Vegas 6.0c (build 153) at DVinfo.net

Shannon Rawls · January 22nd, 2006, 02:43 PM

Ok...who said 24f doesn't work in Sony Vegas? That's not the case. Check it out.....

It's Sunday Afternoon. 12:02pm according to my clock. I've always had Sony Vegas 5 on my laptop computer (Sony Vaio GRT170) and never had the need to upgrade to Vegas 6. Last night I downloaded the free trial version of Vegas 6.0c (build 153) from the www.SonyMediaSoftware.com website because I was doing some tests with my new FS-4 Pro HD D.T.E. recorder. I was having some issues with .m2t files it was creating, so I upgraded to Sony Vegas 6 to see if version 5 was the problem. More about that in another post.

Anyhow.....I have read all over the place that there is no way to capture and edit 24F footage of the XL-H1 for PC users. I beleived it. (shame on me). Just for kicks this morning, I decided to see how the Canon XL-H1 works with Sony Vegas 6 since I downloaded it and knew it is supposed to work with HDV (unlike Version 5). So here's what I did just an hour ago, by the numbers:

1. I put the XL-H1 on a tripod, turned it on and put it in HD mode and 24F frame rate (F2).
2. Plugged in a 6 foot 4pin to 4pin firewire cable to the camera and to my laptop
3. Turned on the Camera and put it in [A]utomatic mode.
4. Immediately the computer recognized the XL-H1 and said it is ready for use.
5. I started Sony Vegas 6.0c (build 153) and clicked the "Project Media" tab at the bottom. I then clicked "Capture Video" icon.
6. a dialog box popped up asking me which way would I like to capture video? I selected the 2nd choice (internal application DV/HDV)
7. It then added a new tab below called "CAPTURE" and had a video screen. The screen was blue and said "NO DEVICE SELECTED".
8. So naturally I clicked Prefrences and went to the "Devices" tab.
9. In the 'Device Type' drop down it had "IEEE 1394/MPEG2-TS Device" and also "BlackMagic Design DeckLink" as an option. I chose the first one
10. Immediately below in the 'Device' box it said Canon XL H1.
11. As soon as I clicked "OK" i seen live video being fed to the monitor. *i got a little excited* lol

Ok....now....I was confused. I was under the impression that 24F mode from the Canon XL-H1 didn't work with Sony Vegas 6 or ANY other PC editing program for that matter. I checked the camera and it was in fact HDV 24F mode. it said it in the viewfinder and the switches were correctly selected also. But low & behold....I'm getting a live video feed of 24p footage.

Hmmmmmmm, well maybe the problem is that it can see the footage but it can't "RECORD" a 24f live feed? ok, so let's try that ....

11. I gave the soon to be recorded clip name "24f" and did not put the extension '.m2t'. I wanted to see if Vegas would do it automatically.
12. The Only Button avalable was the big red record button. So I clicked it and counted to 10. After i reached 10, I hit the stop button.
13. I then clicked the "Project Media" tab and guess what I saw.....a new video clip named "24f.m2t" *i got a little excited* lol
14. I checked the properties of the clip, and to my surprise, the clip was 1440x1080x32bit, 23.976fps (progressive scan) 1.333 aspect ratio!
15. I flipped the frame rate switch on the XL-H1 to 30f (F1) and repeated the same steps as before. After capturing some 30p footage I check it.
16. the "30f.m2t" file i captured live had the properties of 1440x1080x32bit, 29.970fps (progressive scan) 1.333 aspect ratio!
17. Just for kicks, I flipped the frame rate switch on the XL-H1 to 60i (i) and repeated the same steps as before. After capturing some 60i footage I check it.
18. the "60i.m2t" file i captured live had the properties of 1440x1080x32bit, 29.970fps (upper field first) 1.333 aspect ratio!

WOW! All this time...I never even gave it a thought to try my own XL-H1's with Sony Vegas. (silly me) I just beleived that there was no way to capture it without getting the great program from CineForm (Prospect HD).

Hmmmmmmmmm, well, maybe it can record live footage, but it won't "CAPTURE" pre-recorded HD footage from a MiniDV tape??? So I gave it a try as well.....

19. I unplugged the camera from the computer and recorded 20 seconds of 24F footage to a miniDV cassette tape.
20. I then recorded 20 more seconds, but this time it was 30F footage to MiniDV tape.
21. I didn't try 60i
22. I plugged the camera up to the computer via firewire again, rewound the tape to the beginning.
23. Just to be safe I made sure the camera WAS NOT downconverting my HDV footage to DV. It was not, and the little HDV blue light was ON near the firewire plug.
24. I took a look at Sony Vegas.
25. This time none of the tape transport buttons were greyed out. They were all availbale. I tested the buttons and it began to control my XL-H1.
26. I hit the red record button and it began to play the camera automatically AND capture the footage. I did this for both 24f & 30f clips that I had recorded.
27. Same results!

SONY VEGAS 6.0c(build 153) WILL INGEST 24F(24p) AND 30F(30p) FOOTAGE FROM A CANON XL-H1 NO PROBLEM

Tested and verified from yours truly.

So for all those who were concerned with a way of capturing and/or cutting your XL-H1 24p HD footage....worry no more. I don't know how or why or where the rumor that Sony Vegas will not handle 24f footage came from...but it's certainly not true. It will record LIVE 24f footage and capture MINIDV TAPE 24f footage. no problemo.

Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Sony Vegas 6.0c = YES
Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Adobe Premier Pro 2.0 = YES
Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8 = YES
Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Canopus Edius Pro 3 = YES
Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Pinnacle Liquid 7 = NOT YET (liquid will not capture 24p of ANY type)
Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Avid Xpress Pro = NOT YET (60i only)

- ShannonRawls.com

Randy Donato · January 22nd, 2006, 06:04 PM

"Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Canopus Edius Pro 3 = TBD"

Edius build 3.6 supports all modes for the Canon H1...confirmed by support. The one we were debating in another thread is the Panny 108024p which is supposed to be verified in Japan....I am fairly sure that works but don't take it to the bank until Japan confirms with the camera.

Shawn Alyasiri · January 22nd, 2006, 07:35 PM

For what it's worth, I've got a Canopus SP system with the new driver - the system rocks, and the test footage for the H1 looks great.

I also have Vegas 6, but it was only to play with HD100 files while Canopus was finishing up support for the 3.61 release. Now it's all there and in realtime.

I used to be Premiere with the Canopus Storm - but my editor blew up exactly one year ago Thursday. Had to upgrade and I don't regret the choice. Was a little worried for a couple of months post-NAB, but it's all good now.

Edius 'Broadcast' is to be out at the end of the month - that will get you into P2/Varicam, plus what it's got now.

I love it - plus it SCREAMS on SD...

Nerses Papoyan · June 16th, 2006, 07:17 PM

this is great input, thank you very much, I have XL H1 and could capture 24f without cineform, wich was demo version.
I do have Premiere Pro 2.0 and Vegas 6.0
I'm using FS-4 pro hd, so when I record in FS-4 24f HD footage, and then upload the file to Vegas 6.0 it shows that is 29.97 f/sec
Another thing that you say that Premiree Pro 2 does work with XL H1 24f
Could you please tell me how did you capture ?
what preset you using in Premiere Pro, what timeline, and how should I render at the end, to have my DVD in SD mode of course but wide screen and 24f to look like a movie?!

Thank you very much

Christopher Glaeser · June 16th, 2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerses Papoyan

you say that Premiree Pro 2 does work with XL H1 24f
Could you please tell me how did you capture ?

Use the Cineform CFHD codec supplied with Aspect HD.

Best,
Christopher

Jeff Gibbs · June 19th, 2006, 06:16 AM

Shannon, thanks for the report. That's HDV that's being captured I presume. Wonder if files captured using the Windows based software can then be edited using FCP without too much trouble?
I wonder if anyone has a solution for capturing uncompressed into a laptop. Thinking about getting the new MacBook so I can deal with both Mac and Windows based software in one machine. Starting to regret going with FCP with the problems dealing with 24f w FCP especially when I read about all the windows based solutions to 24f/HDV.

Chris Hurd · June 19th, 2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Gibbs

I wonder if anyone has a solution for capturing uncompressed into a laptop.

I think the big challenge with capturing uncompressed into a laptop is the tremendous amount of drive space you need to hold uncompressed video. The XL H1 outputs uncompressed at nearly 1.5 gigabits per second. At that rate you'd fill up a terrabyte of storage with something like eight minutes of video. Not very practical! Plus, there's the law of diminishing returns... I don't think you could visually perceive any difference between uncompressed video and video which is compressed by an efficient, high quality codec.

Barlow Elton · June 19th, 2006, 10:11 AM

http://www.vydeo.com/products/EC34.html

This and the Sheer codec might be the golden ticket to the greener pastures (pun intended) beyond HDV. ;-)

Chris Hurd · June 19th, 2006, 10:39 AM

And I was in Littleton just last week. Interesting! Thanks Barlow,

January 22nd, 2006, 02:43 PM	#1
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	24f, 30f, 60i modes of XL-H1 all work fine in Sony Vegas 6.0c (build 153) Ok...who said 24f doesn't work in Sony Vegas? That's not the case. Check it out..... It's Sunday Afternoon. 12:02pm according to my clock. I've always had Sony Vegas 5 on my laptop computer (Sony Vaio GRT170) and never had the need to upgrade to Vegas 6. Last night I downloaded the free trial version of Vegas 6.0c (build 153) from the www.SonyMediaSoftware.com website because I was doing some tests with my new FS-4 Pro HD D.T.E. recorder. I was having some issues with .m2t files it was creating, so I upgraded to Sony Vegas 6 to see if version 5 was the problem. More about that in another post. Anyhow.....I have read all over the place that there is no way to capture and edit 24F footage of the XL-H1 for PC users. I beleived it. (shame on me). Just for kicks this morning, I decided to see how the Canon XL-H1 works with Sony Vegas 6 since I downloaded it and knew it is supposed to work with HDV (unlike Version 5). So here's what I did just an hour ago, by the numbers: 1. I put the XL-H1 on a tripod, turned it on and put it in HD mode and 24F frame rate (F2). 2. Plugged in a 6 foot 4pin to 4pin firewire cable to the camera and to my laptop 3. Turned on the Camera and put it in [A]utomatic mode. 4. Immediately the computer recognized the XL-H1 and said it is ready for use. 5. I started Sony Vegas 6.0c (build 153) and clicked the "Project Media" tab at the bottom. I then clicked "Capture Video" icon. 6. a dialog box popped up asking me which way would I like to capture video? I selected the 2nd choice (internal application DV/HDV) 7. It then added a new tab below called "CAPTURE" and had a video screen. The screen was blue and said "NO DEVICE SELECTED". 8. So naturally I clicked Prefrences and went to the "Devices" tab. 9. In the 'Device Type' drop down it had "IEEE 1394/MPEG2-TS Device" and also "BlackMagic Design DeckLink" as an option. I chose the first one 10. Immediately below in the 'Device' box it said Canon XL H1. 11. As soon as I clicked "OK" i seen live video being fed to the monitor. i got a little excited lol Ok....now....I was confused. I was under the impression that 24F mode from the Canon XL-H1 didn't work with Sony Vegas 6 or ANY other PC editing program for that matter. I checked the camera and it was in fact HDV 24F mode. it said it in the viewfinder and the switches were correctly selected also. But low & behold....I'm getting a live video feed of 24p footage. Hmmmmmmm, well maybe the problem is that it can see the footage but it can't "RECORD" a 24f live feed? ok, so let's try that .... 11. I gave the soon to be recorded clip name "24f" and did not put the extension '.m2t'. I wanted to see if Vegas would do it automatically. 12. The Only Button avalable was the big red record button. So I clicked it and counted to 10. After i reached 10, I hit the stop button. 13. I then clicked the "Project Media" tab and guess what I saw.....a new video clip named "24f.m2t" i got a little excited lol 14. I checked the properties of the clip, and to my surprise, the clip was 1440x1080x32bit, 23.976fps (progressive scan) 1.333 aspect ratio! 15. I flipped the frame rate switch on the XL-H1 to 30f (F1) and repeated the same steps as before. After capturing some 30p footage I check it. 16. the "30f.m2t" file i captured live had the properties of 1440x1080x32bit, 29.970fps (progressive scan) 1.333 aspect ratio! 17. Just for kicks, I flipped the frame rate switch on the XL-H1 to 60i (i) and repeated the same steps as before. After capturing some 60i footage I check it. 18. the "60i.m2t" file i captured live had the properties of 1440x1080x32bit, 29.970fps (upper field first) 1.333 aspect ratio! WOW! All this time...I never even gave it a thought to try my own XL-H1's with Sony Vegas. (silly me) I just beleived that there was no way to capture it without getting the great program from CineForm (Prospect HD). Hmmmmmmmmm, well, maybe it can record live footage, but it won't "CAPTURE" pre-recorded HD footage from a MiniDV tape??? So I gave it a try as well..... 19. I unplugged the camera from the computer and recorded 20 seconds of 24F footage to a miniDV cassette tape. 20. I then recorded 20 more seconds, but this time it was 30F footage to MiniDV tape. 21. I didn't try 60i 22. I plugged the camera up to the computer via firewire again, rewound the tape to the beginning. 23. Just to be safe I made sure the camera WAS NOT downconverting my HDV footage to DV. It was not, and the little HDV blue light was ON near the firewire plug. 24. I took a look at Sony Vegas. 25. This time none of the tape transport buttons were greyed out. They were all availbale. I tested the buttons and it began to control my XL-H1. 26. I hit the red record button and it began to play the camera automatically AND capture the footage. I did this for both 24f & 30f clips that I had recorded. 27. Same results! SONY VEGAS 6.0c(build 153) WILL INGEST 24F(24p) AND 30F(30p) FOOTAGE FROM A CANON XL-H1 NO PROBLEM Tested and verified from yours truly. So for all those who were concerned with a way of capturing and/or cutting your XL-H1 24p HD footage....worry no more. I don't know how or why or where the rumor that Sony Vegas will not handle 24f footage came from...but it's certainly not true. It will record LIVE 24f footage and capture MINIDV TAPE 24f footage. no problemo. Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Sony Vegas 6.0c = YES Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Adobe Premier Pro 2.0 = YES Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8 = YES Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Canopus Edius Pro 3 = YES Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Pinnacle Liquid 7 = NOT YET (liquid will not capture 24p of ANY type) Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Avid Xpress Pro = NOT YET (60i only) - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition. Last edited by Shannon Rawls; January 22nd, 2006 at 06:48 PM.

June 16th, 2006, 07:17 PM	#4
Nerses Papoyan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Laredo, Texas Posts: 42	Shawn this is great input, thank you very much, I have XL H1 and could capture 24f without cineform, wich was demo version. I do have Premiere Pro 2.0 and Vegas 6.0 I'm using FS-4 pro hd, so when I record in FS-4 24f HD footage, and then upload the file to Vegas 6.0 it shows that is 29.97 f/sec Another thing that you say that Premiree Pro 2 does work with XL H1 24f Could you please tell me how did you capture ? what preset you using in Premiere Pro, what timeline, and how should I render at the end, to have my DVD in SD mode of course but wide screen and 24f to look like a movie?! Thank you very much

June 19th, 2006, 10:39 AM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	And I was in Littleton just last week. Interesting! Thanks Barlow, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 22nd, 2006, 06:04 PM	#2
Randy Donato Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 138	"Capture & Edit Canon XL-H1 in 24f/30f/60i HD modes using Canopus Edius Pro 3 = TBD" Edius build 3.6 supports all modes for the Canon H1...confirmed by support. The one we were debating in another thread is the Panny 108024p which is supposed to be verified in Japan....I am fairly sure that works but don't take it to the bank until Japan confirms with the camera.

January 22nd, 2006, 07:35 PM	#3
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	For what it's worth, I've got a Canopus SP system with the new driver - the system rocks, and the test footage for the H1 looks great. I also have Vegas 6, but it was only to play with HD100 files while Canopus was finishing up support for the 3.61 release. Now it's all there and in realtime. I used to be Premiere with the Canopus Storm - but my editor blew up exactly one year ago Thursday. Had to upgrade and I don't regret the choice. Was a little worried for a couple of months post-NAB, but it's all good now. Edius 'Broadcast' is to be out at the end of the month - that will get you into P2/Varicam, plus what it's got now. I love it - plus it SCREAMS on SD...

June 19th, 2006, 06:16 AM	#6
Jeff Gibbs Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 38	Shannon, thanks for the report. That's HDV that's being captured I presume. Wonder if files captured using the Windows based software can then be edited using FCP without too much trouble? I wonder if anyone has a solution for capturing uncompressed into a laptop. Thinking about getting the new MacBook so I can deal with both Mac and Windows based software in one machine. Starting to regret going with FCP with the problems dealing with 24f w FCP especially when I read about all the windows based solutions to 24f/HDV.

June 19th, 2006, 10:11 AM	#8
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	http://www.vydeo.com/products/EC34.html This and the Sheer codec might be the golden ticket to the greener pastures (pun intended) beyond HDV. ;-)