4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

[Wayne Morellini]

The latest community technical update is over at the technical discussion thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...43&#post221443

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

Obin,
If you could tell us how the format looks like, we can for sure open it....
I have a conversion application working now.It opens a RAW file (I mean pure binary file nothing more) and outputs a sequence of Tiff files...
Could anybody here tell me how to manage hot pixels.I mean what is the usual way to remove them....


What a test image should look like.......................

http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_09/essay.html

[Jason Rodriguez]

Hot pixels are typically "mapped" out, i.e., they are linearly interpolated from the surrounding pixels to look like they belong in the same area. Even if they are on a line, typically you won't notice if you only have one pixel out of place (again, it's typically a linear average of the surrounding 8 pixels in RGB).

That's pretty cool Juan that you made your own RAW converter. Is there anywhere that we can see the converted output?

Also, I think Juan has touched on something interested here, our RAW converters should have some sort of methodology of identifying and removing hot pixels. Maybe not the first alpha/beta, but definitely the final release.

[Wayne Morellini]

Good on you, Juan :)

[Jason Rodriguez]

Hey Obin,

Here's the deal: FCP does work with the new Sheer at RGB 10-bit, 1920x1080, but it's only recongnizing the file as an RGB 8-bit file. That's an FCP limitation, where YUV is recognized at high bit-depth, such as 10 or 12-bit (and it renders at 32-bit floating point), but RGB is limited to 8-bit for now (no 16-bit).

While Quicktimes are very convenient, I still think that Sheer video might not be the best idea, especially if you have to convert from RGB to YUV for 10-bit processing-there are a whole ton of problems that can go wrong in that conversion. Of course the call is yours, but I would still leave open the door to a 16-bit TIFF file for those of us who don't want to mess with the Sheer Video processing that could be compromising the ultimate image quality or bit-depth of the image.

Now if you don't add any filters in FCP, then you're fine. You can maintain the 10-bits since FCP is only making pointers to Quicktime files, it's never modifying the original source files. So if you edit in FCP, and then take that edited timeline to AE or Combustion, etc. (via automatic duck, XML, etc.), then you are maintaining the total 10-bits RGB. But assume that you're going to be able to do your final render/conform in FCP-if you do that, then you're going to be filtering at 8-bits, and your result will be in 8-bits. I think if you do log-encoding to the 10-bit RGB Sheer file, then you're in very good shape, and will be preserving the totality of the 12-bits from the Altasens. Also at 1920x1080 we were running at 64MB/s.

[Obin Olson]

this sounds good Jason...so if FCP is only a pointer app if you don't apply effects how does it deal with stuff like fade-to-white etc? if it's a pointer then it will not render a single file an dyou can jsut open the project in AE and CC or Combustion? how can you get a FCP timeline into AE or Combustion?

Jason I would like to call you on the phone for a chat..ok with you? I need number ;)

[Obin Olson]

Juan M

can I send you a RAW file to look at and test?

send me your email and i will send you a raw file to test with

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

morsa @t morsa DOT net Dot ar

Remember it just opens .bin and it only does the color interpolation...
No gamma, no other things up to now....
I need a hot pixel filter.....:(

[Obin Olson]

I have .raw files

hat is wrong with 8 bits as a master format Jason? do all the CC in 10bit/12bit and then edit and compress at 8bit..ok?

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

.raw

If they are just binary (I mean no headers, no tails, just the crude line of pixels it would be ok....)
I can only work with 1920x1080 and 1280x720 at 16 bit per pixel so no packing supported yet..

[Jason Rodriguez]

There's nothing wrong with 8-bit as a presentation format, for a Master format there's the insinuation that you'll be archiving on this format.

BTW, again, Sheer is a 10-bit codec, it's just that you can't Master in FCP with it right now, you're gonna have to move over to AE, etc. Frankly, as a 10-bit format, it's not as good as the Blackmagic, etc., which can take 16-bit renders out of AE and filter them down to 10-bits, so when you're selecting them under the Quicktime filter tab, they say "trillions of colors" rather than "Millions of Colors".

Again, I'm not telling you what to do, but as a potential end-user, I would like to see you keep the option for uncompressed 16-bit linear TIFF's for those of us who want uncompromised image quality.

But as far as Sheer goes, yes, it does work with Sheer 10-bit stuff, but only in YUV, not RGB.

[Obin Olson]

Yes we will have tiff files but I am looking at compression as a way to allow the editing of files on a standard computer with no special hard disk drives etc...that is the reason for SHeer and to keep 10bit at a datarate of only 10-15MB/sec with very little compression like Sheer is amazing I think..it's like CineForm but it's an open codec that anyone can install and edit with if it's used by a mac

what are the other options at the moment for editing?

Does anyone know how hard it is to go from RGB -> YUV?? could this be a converter that could take RGB make it YUV AND compress it with quicktime Sheer codec all at the same time? how bad would the quality hit be?

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

Obin, what happened with the images you would send me?

[Obin Olson]

I could not get at them today as the LightWave animation machine was in use by our animator ;( I will do it asap

[Jason Rodriguez]

Does anyone know how hard it is to go from RGB -> YUV??

Isn't this conversion process handled by the Quicktime conversion engine? Or is that not enough quality, or not operating at high enough bit-depth?