Footage posted from Spoon

Jason Rodriguez · June 5th, 2006, 08:01 AM

Working with the Cineform RAW footage is completely transparent to the end user. In fact, you can mix/match in real-time Cineform RAW with the current Cineform codecs, meaning anything digitizied via HD-SDI or HDV sources. So for instance, you could do a real-time dissolve with Cineform RAW material and something from an F900, etc. As the end user the footage all acts the same way. The Cineform RAW footage though has a special control panel that allows you to modify the RAW data settings and how the RAW files are interpreted if you choose to tinker at a lower level.

Maheel Perera · June 5th, 2006, 10:04 AM

Ari / Jason/ Francois,

Is it possible to get a minute of your camera footage to test it for a film transfer. I intend to shoot a feature in August and testing z1 to shoot it. But I would defenetely wait for your camera if it delivers.

Don Donatello · June 5th, 2006, 10:06 AM

"In fact, you can mix/match in real-time Cineform RAW with the current Cineform codecs, meaning anything digitizied via HD-SDI or HDV sources."

does this mean you have to convert the HD/HDV to cineform files or you could just mix captured HDV and HD ( from cinealta captured say thru decklink HD uncompressed) ?

i know non raw cineform clips will play in other apps - but i'm not clear if cineform RAW will play in those other apps ...IE: 10bit 1920x1080 24p cineform clips will playback in Vegas and other apps at 8bit if you have the cineform codec (free reader) installed ... or is RAW cineform clips confined to PP and AE for the moment?

Jason Rodriguez · June 5th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Once we get quicktime, you'll be able to take the Cineform RAW files anywhere. The current AVI files are limited to Prospect HD, which means After Effects and Premiere Pro only.

When I was saying HDV/HD-SDI sources, I was talking about footage digitized through AspectHD/ProsepectHD/PremierePro.

So for instance, HD-SDI footage shot by someone and digitized into a Prospect HD suite will work in realtime with Cineform RAW data.

Aspect HD footage (via HDV stuff) will mix and match nicely with Cineform RAW footage.

Of course you need Prospect HD to edit Cineform RAW, but the point is that with Cineform RAW you have a very nice workflow that can work with other sources of media, so you're not just locked to one codec, having to render from Cineform RAW into another codec just to edit in real-time with other sources. You can mix/match sources in real-time on the same timeline.

Nathan Troutman · June 5th, 2006, 08:52 PM

This is a little off the topic but what the heck. What's the future possibilities of a Final Cut Studio workflow running through an apple system?

Ari Presler · June 5th, 2006, 09:55 PM

We have currently porting the CineForm codec to Quicktime for Mac and PC operations. Initialially the codec will be optimized for the Intel Mac (CineForm component are already heavy optimized for Intel parts) have G5 binaries should be made available for compatibility with old Macs. The camera files can be transfer via EtherNet or the drive directly mounted via USB2. These files will playback within any QuickTime application. The CineForm RAW MOV files will operate within Final Cut Pro just like any other third party codec. You can use you compete your post/color work just the same as if you where using BitJazz or another codec. The workflow is going to be pretty seemless. There are some new features for FCP, such as post-manipulation of the color matrices for the decoded data -- integration into FCP has yet to be determined.
__________________
David Newman
web: www.cineform.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com

Steve Madsen · June 5th, 2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand

Also, I love your idea of using RAW, although I hope using it PP2 will be totally transparent, ie, just like any other format. Although I'm a PP1.5 user so maybe Vegas people won't fancy the idea.

So Vegas is a no go? Can I ask why? And any future plans to make this happen?

I'd have a hard time leaving the bright lights of Vegas...

Jason Rodriguez · June 6th, 2006, 05:55 AM

I think the Quicktime's will work fine in Vegas . . . the AVI's right now don't because you need Prospect HD which only works in the Adobe apps.

Bob Grant · June 6th, 2006, 06:04 AM

Sadly at this stage Vegas has no support for a 10 bit pipeline, that has many impacts and the SI camera is not the least of them.

Jason Rodriguez · June 6th, 2006, 06:07 AM

Oh . . . that's a biggie . . . no 10-bit support??

Well then, I'm sorry, without that, you're not going to be able to take advantage of the camera's capabilties.

10-bit or deep pixel support is a must-have item . . .

David Newman · June 6th, 2006, 09:18 AM

I've been missing this thread. Hi guys. Yes, RAW processing really requires a deeper pixel format as the the dynamic range is much higher. It is simply not possible to squeeze the dynamic from the SI camera into an 8-bit colorsapce without introducing color banding. If or when Vegas support 10-bits+ we will make the upgrades so thay CineForm RAW can be used within Vegas. Contact Sony now. :)

Steve Madsen · June 6th, 2006, 03:45 PM

Well if Sony want to keep my business, they'd better update soon!

Thanks gents, very informative.

Jaadgy Akanni · June 7th, 2006, 10:04 AM

Ari, I've tried to view the footage but something's not happening with my Mac and WindowsMedia player. What can it be? I desperately wanna see running footage of the SI.

Ari Presler · June 7th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Only option is: http://www.flip4mac.com/

but it does not decode as well as Microsoft Media Player 10 on PC.

June 5th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#17
Maheel Perera Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sri Lanka Posts: 128	Ari / Jason/ Francois, Is it possible to get a minute of your camera footage to test it for a film transfer. I intend to shoot a feature in August and testing z1 to shoot it. But I would defenetely wait for your camera if it delivers. __________________ Maheel Perera www.dcinemanetworks.com

June 5th, 2006, 09:55 PM	#21
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	Final Cut Integration We have currently porting the CineForm codec to Quicktime for Mac and PC operations. Initialially the codec will be optimized for the Intel Mac (CineForm component are already heavy optimized for Intel parts) have G5 binaries should be made available for compatibility with old Macs. The camera files can be transfer via EtherNet or the drive directly mounted via USB2. These files will playback within any QuickTime application. The CineForm RAW MOV files will operate within Final Cut Pro just like any other third party codec. You can use you compete your post/color work just the same as if you where using BitJazz or another codec. The workflow is going to be pretty seemless. There are some new features for FCP, such as post-manipulation of the color matrices for the decoded data -- integration into FCP has yet to be determined. __________________ David Newman web: www.cineform.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com

June 6th, 2006, 09:18 AM	#26
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I've been missing this thread. Hi guys. Yes, RAW processing really requires a deeper pixel format as the the dynamic range is much higher. It is simply not possible to squeeze the dynamic from the SI camera into an 8-bit colorsapce without introducing color banding. If or when Vegas support 10-bits+ we will make the upgrades so thay CineForm RAW can be used within Vegas. Contact Sony now. :) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 7th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#28
Jaadgy Akanni Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: new york city Posts: 346	leaning towards the SI but... Ari, I've tried to view the footage but something's not happening with my Mac and WindowsMedia player. What can it be? I desperately wanna see running footage of the SI. __________________ I will be KING!

June 7th, 2006, 10:18 AM	#29
Ari Presler Silicon Imaging Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York or Hollywood Posts: 214	MAC Player for WMV Only option is: http://www.flip4mac.com/ but it does not decode as well as Microsoft Media Player 10 on PC.

June 5th, 2006, 08:01 AM	#16
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Working with the Cineform RAW footage is completely transparent to the end user. In fact, you can mix/match in real-time Cineform RAW with the current Cineform codecs, meaning anything digitizied via HD-SDI or HDV sources. So for instance, you could do a real-time dissolve with Cineform RAW material and something from an F900, etc. As the end user the footage all acts the same way. The Cineform RAW footage though has a special control panel that allows you to modify the RAW data settings and how the RAW files are interpreted if you choose to tinker at a lower level.

June 5th, 2006, 10:06 AM	#18
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	"In fact, you can mix/match in real-time Cineform RAW with the current Cineform codecs, meaning anything digitizied via HD-SDI or HDV sources." does this mean you have to convert the HD/HDV to cineform files or you could just mix captured HDV and HD ( from cinealta captured say thru decklink HD uncompressed) ? i know non raw cineform clips will play in other apps - but i'm not clear if cineform RAW will play in those other apps ...IE: 10bit 1920x1080 24p cineform clips will playback in Vegas and other apps at 8bit if you have the cineform codec (free reader) installed ... or is RAW cineform clips confined to PP and AE for the moment?

June 5th, 2006, 03:48 PM	#19
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Once we get quicktime, you'll be able to take the Cineform RAW files anywhere. The current AVI files are limited to Prospect HD, which means After Effects and Premiere Pro only. When I was saying HDV/HD-SDI sources, I was talking about footage digitized through AspectHD/ProsepectHD/PremierePro. So for instance, HD-SDI footage shot by someone and digitized into a Prospect HD suite will work in realtime with Cineform RAW data. Aspect HD footage (via HDV stuff) will mix and match nicely with Cineform RAW footage. Of course you need Prospect HD to edit Cineform RAW, but the point is that with Cineform RAW you have a very nice workflow that can work with other sources of media, so you're not just locked to one codec, having to render from Cineform RAW into another codec just to edit in real-time with other sources. You can mix/match sources in real-time on the same timeline.

June 5th, 2006, 08:52 PM	#20
Nathan Troutman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ (New York metro area) Posts: 105	This is a little off the topic but what the heck. What's the future possibilities of a Final Cut Studio workflow running through an apple system?

June 6th, 2006, 05:55 AM	#23
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	I think the Quicktime's will work fine in Vegas . . . the AVI's right now don't because you need Prospect HD which only works in the Adobe apps.

June 6th, 2006, 06:04 AM	#24
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Sadly at this stage Vegas has no support for a 10 bit pipeline, that has many impacts and the SI camera is not the least of them.

June 6th, 2006, 06:07 AM	#25
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Oh . . . that's a biggie . . . no 10-bit support?? Well then, I'm sorry, without that, you're not going to be able to take advantage of the camera's capabilties. 10-bit or deep pixel support is a must-have item . . .

June 6th, 2006, 03:45 PM	#27
Steve Madsen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 111	Well if Sony want to keep my business, they'd better update soon! Thanks gents, very informative.